Ice Continent (wilderness) track

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dariunas
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Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 19 Apr 2008, 01:31

Hey all,

Am now working on a piece for the wilderness area... this is not quite in the same orchestral vein as the other tracks so far, there will be orchestral elements though (as are present at end of this excerpt).

http://www.infectedmusicdesigns.co.uk/T ... nitial.ogg

(Anyone who recalls the initial Hurnscald versions may remember a darker section that didn't gel with the rest of the track - I'm thinking I might incorporate the section further along in this track...)
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by Othello » 19 Apr 2008, 07:12

I think its good. Then again, maybe I'm not very much of a critic ;)
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by ElvenProgrammer » 19 Apr 2008, 08:03

I think the same, it's very nice, nothing to improve IMHO.
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 20 Apr 2008, 23:34

Have the music for the roaming ice/snow area done now... (unless there's anything anyone feels needs working on etc.)

http://www.infectedmusicdesigns.co.uk/T ... tinent.ogg
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by Rotonen » 21 Apr 2008, 00:35

Into mixing it goes.

At the moment the "drums" are just horrible and strike out at my ears in a really rather wrong fashion.

The carpet of high pitches is also starting to give me a headache.
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 21 Apr 2008, 18:05

Ok...

That was a little harsh :| - You don't need to write 'drums' in inverted commas as it suggests to me that you find it such a weak attempt that 'drums' isn't even a fit enough label? I need you to be a little more specific about what aspect of the percussive elements aren't working for you here. ie. Is the rhythm too breakbeat? Bass drum too loud? Snare too piercing? etc. before I can go back to work on this, I'll need a bit more detail please.

I'm sorry this is giving you a headache... but what hardware/speakers are you listening on??? I've listened to this one on a budget laptop, my MP3 player, a creative X-Fi USB audio interface (external card) and my system at home. I can't find this element of consistently excessive hi-middle/treble. - If you have access to a spectral analyser or even an audio application with a realtime graphic EQ display like Winamp, the frequency ranges are pretty well balanced. Please also check your EQ settings on your apps/soundcard - they should be flat to give an uncoloured sound. I've listened to this a lot and had problems.(edit-I meant 'no' problems!) Can anyone else have a listen if they're getting the same issues?

I could increase the hi-freq damping setting on the reverb, but that's going to kill the harmonics on quite a few other instruments, dulling them. I could EQ instruments before they hit the reverb in the signal chain, but I need you to identify the sounds which seem problematic. I appreciate that the Snow Village track could still use some work, but to my ear, this one only needs a few tweaks, if any.

Guys, your etiquette when it comes to critiquing could be little better considered some of the time. Describing the problem is one thing. If there are a lot of high frequencies, I understand that. But to say it's giving you a headache is just unnecessary information - something like that I'd normally take as borderline offensive unless other listeners felt the same. I enjoy working on this and your comments are generally very helpful in focusing my compositions to be suitable. All I'm saying is there are lots of ways of saying the same thing ;)
Last edited by dariunas on 21 Apr 2008, 22:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by peavey » 21 Apr 2008, 18:56

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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 21 Apr 2008, 19:09

Hi Peavey

That's perfect :) - a few people have quoted times here and there, but laying them out as you have done is a great way to nail specifics

The mechanical drums issue is pretty clear - everything but the drums (just bass and snare) were played in real time. I manually edited a few velocities here and there but as you say, the human element is clearly absent in the timing. Will pull the drums into the background just a little tune the snare sample and 'humanise' the percussion performance. Will also edit the shakers as they sound by comparison, quite random in places.

Also at 0:52 to 054 will take out the bar and smooth the transition into the next section. Should help it all gel a bit better :)
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by peavey » 21 Apr 2008, 19:15

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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 21 Apr 2008, 20:41

Yeah, lol

I was reading it and was thinking... "what bassline??... ... ... wait, my song isn't even 5mins long... :shock: there aren't any strings at 14secs! What's this guy on about? Oh... wait a minute :| ... Oh! :oops: ... :) ... :D ... :mrgreen: "

Tuned drums definitely helps... My interest in music actually came as I started out on guitar and moved to drums. I was always a better drummer than guitarist though and can play to the standard of any deftones/Vex Red track, also loved the band Katatonia (peaceville records) I was wondering about your name. Now I know!
Last edited by dariunas on 21 Apr 2008, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by Rotonen » 21 Apr 2008, 22:17

Gear: a FireWire interphased Terratec PHASE 24, a pair of Behringer studio monitors with a proper set of preamps and amps (self made torroidial ones) (a prototype set which I got cheap from the importer, probably EUROLIVE series, besides from the self made bits). This in an echoless listening room. (A recording studio and post processing plant for bands on our campus.)

Do not have constant access and/or time to go evaluate the pieces we get, hence the randomness in the flow of my commentary.

Flat mixing used. Yes, did spectral analyzation too.

The snare really strikes through while maintaining a hollow emptiness and the tomtoms(?) are kind of plastic. Distantly reminds me of a broken down 808. This is just a relative volume issue if you're going for the cheap (still quite good enough) solution here. A bit of mixing/mastering should fix it.

The crash symbals are actually quite nice.

As you suspected, the high frequency problem has to do with the reverb. At times the reverb of the chimes clashes with the piano-ish thing causing a some sort of a standing wave combination. Could also just be that the physical structure of my ear is lucky enough to be the perfect venue for this to happen.

If no one else reports anything about the higher frequencies, you can probably safely ignore it.

As a sidenote I tend to keep my form of communication as minimal as possible. This both reduces the possibility for interpretation and cuts out all the polite bits. You will not hear positive things from me until I'm really satisfied with something. Is this form of communication going to work or do you have to get special treatment?

As additional explaination, I thought you would reach the same conclusions as I did after hinting you towards the right direction. Don't think I was that much off.

Then additionally extending this with a few more sections would probably not hurt the looping experience. The theme itself leaves me the feeling it could be built upon easily.

So far I like you for not running away on the first blunt blow I deal out, but actually talking back to me as you are supposed to. That is dialogue, it works for development.
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 21 Apr 2008, 23:31

Ok - lol... the setup you've listened through is far more suitable than what I have access to at home :|
If no one else reports anything about the higher frequencies, you can probably safely ignore it.
Your equipment suggests you have the optimum monitoring gear, so you're in a better position than me after all. (Although I had been taught at uni, the most surefire way is 'as many systems as possible?) :) I'll trim out some high end stuff here. Maybe by simply decreasing the release time on the chimes...
As a sidenote I tend to keep my form of communication as minimal as possible. This both reduces the possibility for interpretation and cuts out all the polite bits. You will not hear positive things from me until I'm really satisfied with something. Is this form of communication going to work or do you have to get special treatment?
I understand this. I had a uni lecturer who was the same and I thought he hated me, but in the end, I got graded well - turns out he only commented on anything that needed improvement, rather than giving me a pat on the back for the good things. But his feedback was accurate detailing why it didn't work, and reminding me what the expectation is - this was a good thing and made me work harder... Of course this form of communication is fine :wink: though you might have missed my point :?: - I don't expect special treatment, but it's that I personally believe investing a little more consideration into feedback as you have done here is infinitely more helpful and benefits everyone involved surely? :)

(I do appreciate you won't always have the time to go into detail, given that you're heading up many creative aspects of the game, but also believe it wouldn't take long to look over a comment and ensure it's a little more considered.) With all respect, this is something that has come up before from other users. It really is not about special treatment, but about consideration for your peers and collegues which I think helps everyone gel a bit more? But thank you for taking the time to respond in depth :)

In regards to this track, I'd swapped out both the bass and the snare drum earlier, and rather than create a track will concentrate on refining Snow Village and this for now...
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by dariunas » 08 May 2008, 09:51

Latest version guys,

Please let me know of any snagging items. Section from 2:05 to 3:23 is intended to be more fluid and not really locked down to a timing grid, but there may be some elements or timing of hits which may sound a little off or uncomfortable...

Rotonen, I will start the new filenaming convention we discussed in Arctic Village thread from the next new track as this one's already been through a few revisions...

http://www.infectedmusicdesigns.co.uk/T ... tinent.ogg
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Re: Ice Continent (wilderness) track

Post by Rotonen » 09 May 2008, 19:19

Should do the trick. No issues with the timings as you suggested: the offness fits it and makes it better for repetitive listening. At first I was concerned about the contrast between sections, but it got better over repetitions.

Since you have spaces in the filenames, please do start the naming system usage at some point.
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