Basic plot rewrite outline

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Basic plot rewrite outline

Post by mandrake » 09 Mar 2005, 17:05

here is a point by point rewrite of the plot:

1. Gods exist before time.
2. Gods create a world to play with in order to resolve disputes.
3. This world is imbued with Mana, which allows the gods to indirectly control the world.
4. Some of the gods began to quibble over every detail, destroying cities and lives.
5. These war like gods began to frighten the other gods, who called them "The Veshin", which in the old tongue meant "Blood Hungry".
6. The peacefull gods called themselves "The Oiri", which in the old tongue means "The Watchers from Afar"
7. In fear, The Oiri began to secretly take provisions in taming The Veshin.
8. The created the Mana spirits to gaurd the mana power and to lock out the Veshin from using it.
9. They then gave humans access to the power, teaching them how to use it, to protect themselves from the Veshin.
10. They gave humans six swords, one for each nation. Each sword contained the spirit of the world, a fragment of the man tree. These swords were given to men to govern their counties in time of war.
11. The Veshin discovered what the Oiri had done. Since they could no longer wield mana to attack the Mana World, the began to attack each other and the Oiri.
12. The Oiri, in fear banished the Veshin to the Mana World, to view the destruction they had created.
13. In one last blow, as the Last Veshin was being sent to the Mana World he pulled upon all of strength and murdered the Oiri, banishing them into the void between worlds.
14. One Oiri, before he died, instructed the Mana Spirits to never allow the Veshin access to their powers again, and to create 9 humans who are the Sages of Mana. These humans were meant to watch over the Veshin, and to make certain that they do not once again cause the destruction of the world.
15. On earth, the Veshin overthrow each kingdom, stealing the swords from each leader. They had found a loop hole in the plan on the Oiri, that those who wielded the mana swords could still weild mana.
16. The Veshin never forgot their old fueds, and still to this day fight amongst one another. Their control over Mana has weakened, but they each own a city state which they use to fuel their wars. There is told of a time, when the wars will stop. When the sages of Mana instruct the Mana spirits to open up the floodgates of Mana and let loose the wild untamed elements into the world, destorying the Veshin for once and for all.

I'm going to go in a bit, create a listing of the different gods and mana spirit and start on writing this out more detailed. I plan on using a tone similiar to how creation myths sound.
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Post by i » 09 Mar 2005, 17:36

IMO sounds good.
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Re: Basic plot rewrite outline

Post by Rotonen » 09 Mar 2005, 18:00

My version (please, if someone has their own vision about it, you're free to express it, or just about any ideas for that matter):

1. Gods exist before time.
2. Gods create a world to play with in order to resolve disputes.
3. This world is imbued with Mana, an energy, which is different from the source of divinity. Mana spirits were created for each element of mana to prevent ANY god from using the power of mana, it was strictly for the use of the new playpieces on the godly chessboard: the humans. (They could not directly control the world, they could only influence it, "play chess" with it.)
4. The warhungry gods enjoy the new game: they can fulfill the needs posed by their natural instincts without harming anyone on the world of gods. Some get fed up because they continuosly lose, some ally, some just get bored of the game and don't just feel the need anymore.
5. These warhungry ones were named as "the Veshin", which just stands for "warhungry" in the old tongue.
6. The peaceful gods called themselves "the Oiri", which could be translated into the old tongue as "the Observers". They can generally be thought of as pacifists.
7. The Oiri and the Veshin started to have larger and larger differences in opinions about things. The Oiri disapproved the manipulation of humans as a species to make them more efficient in war. (Think about cheap scifi novels that concern the subject of genetic manipulation. Or a real life example: doctor Mengele.)
8. As a result of the manipulation humans started to get better and better at wielding Mana (and the influence of Mana actually modified them even further). The mages would reach energy levels equal to modern weaponry (Think about nuclear bombs).
9. The resulting War of the Mana World caused the destruction of the Mana Tree, into which the Mana Sprits were bound. The event led to a loophole in the system: if a god would collect all of the shards of the mana tree, the god in question would then have the ability to wield mana and would gain an edge over all other gods.
10. The Veshin discovered what the Oiri had done. Since they had already developed their differences in opinion between each other, a war between the gods broke out. The Oiri started the war because they wanted to stop the Venshin from taking over the world of the gods: the thought about warhungry gods running the show was unthinkable.
11. A pacifist party does not not turn into a killing machine that easily: the Veshin had a definite advantage due to their experience in war.
12. The Oiri still clung on to their old idealistic idea about peace in the world of gods. They desired it so much that they devised a plan to destroy the entire world of gods and to take the Veshin with them. (A kind of a kamikaze, a honorable ending for it all, they planted the seed for all this by creating the Mana World so they felt responsible for all of this.) They thought that perhaps gods haven't earned the right to exist anymore, they placed their hope for peace in the humans.
13. The plan did not work properly: some of the Venshin managed barely to bind themselves to the Mana World before the world of the gods was destroyed.
14. On the Mana World, the Veshin overthrew the major kingdoms because they were weak at the moment and needed armies to protect themselves from the other Veshin.
15. Now each Veshin wants to obtain the power of Mana in order to gain absolute power: the ability to destroy and create worlds at will.
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Post by Talaroc » 09 Mar 2005, 18:19

Both have their good and bad points...I'll point out what I consider to be the major flaws in each.

Mandrake's: The six swords thing, even knowing a lot about the game, comes kind of out of the blue. Also, if the veshin had no powers over the world, how did they overthrow the kingdoms to obtain the swords? And if they're so warlike, so bent on destroying one another, and once again capable of utilizing mana, why hasn't pretty much everything been destroyed already? Especially if it only took one to kill all the other gods.

Rotonen's: I really don't think using the Mana Tree is that good an idea, both because it's a rip, and because I'd like to see less about the game named "mana [blank]." The gods placed their hope for peace in their chess-pieces, who had just completely ravaged their own world? Doesn't make much sense. How does mana (up till now known as simply the particular energy of the species of this world) translate into the power to destroy and create worlds at will?
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Post by mandrake » 09 Mar 2005, 18:49

It seems like we are starting to refine it down to something we might all agree upon. I like this outline approach because we can quibble and change and adapt ideas without needing to rewrite the background each time.

I'm going to combine some of Rotenen's ideas and Talarocs ideas and create another shot at the background outline.

EDIT:
I also think their needs to be a reason for the Mana in the world to exist. <i>If</i> the Mana World was created by the gods, didn't they create everything on it as well? Couldn't they easily control the Mana then?
Last edited by mandrake on 09 Mar 2005, 18:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by maci » 09 Mar 2005, 18:51

well i guess you all know the movie "The Time Machine"..
well ilike the idea of
there were one humanoid being in the manaworld in the past
but then there were some erm whatevers

and there was evolutions now we have sth like different races.. well and there are holy items from the "uber-humn" (the first one)
whatever
lol
i know i explained it bad but i guess someone can wide this idea
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Post by Kyokai » 09 Mar 2005, 19:09

Rotonen (9) - The tree doesn't seem necessary to hold the spirits. I expressed earlier that I thought the spirits should be like pillars, each supporting a different edge of the world and sustaining it's existence.

Mandrake (4) - It's pretty necessary that mana be fundamentally different from the power the gods wield, this explains why the demons cannot simply destroy the world, and why they need humans to fight for them. Also it keeps the world and the spirits from disappearing when the power of the gods vanishes.

Everyone: I don't see why so many Veshin manage to survive, yet every Oiri gets banished into the void. Don't you think we could work them both into the story?

Mandrake (14) - Sages should probably be appointed by the spirits, more as avatars than rulers. The spirits are the ones who control the sages, not vice-versa. It makes more sense for the spirits to be the ones giving orders, since they have all the power. Also, they will need to have some form of physical manifestation, since they appear in when the player casts a spell.

Rotonen ( 8 ) - What happened to these humans after the wars? Do they still exist, maybe in their own secluded realm of the mana world? Can player characters attain the level of power they possessed? How does this point affect the player creation and interaction, and furthermore, how will we define "race" in this sense?

I don't really see a problem with the term "Mana Tree" it is the "Mana World" after all, and it's slightly obvious where the inspiration for this game came from. It doesn't hurt to be a bit cliche' in order to reinforce our roots. :)

Anyway, that's all I can think of at the moment. Excellent work on the new story, both of you. I can't wait to see the finished product. :)
Last edited by Kyokai on 09 Mar 2005, 22:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mandrake » 09 Mar 2005, 19:12

1. Gods exist before time.
2. Out of boredom, the gods get together and decide to make a world to play with.
3. They experiment a few times, but each world is barren and empty.
4. One god, the god that was the oldest discovers that in order to create life in a world, you need to imbue it with a property known as Mana.
5. The gods build this world and imbue it with Mana. The world comes to life and the Gods are pleased.
6. Some of the gods realize they can influence and manipulate the citizens of this world.
7. They teach some of the citizens to use Mana and teach the people how to create war.
8. The gods are then split into two camps. Those who influence the humans, called the Veshin, which in the old tongue means "Hands of Fate". The other are those who only watch the humans, and do not believe in influencing them, known as the Oiri, translated from the old tongue meaning "Those who watch".
9. The Veshin begin to cause wars and fights for the mere joy of watching the humans play out for their amusement.
10. The Oiri become angered at this abuse of power, and decide that the Veshin should be stopped.
11. The Veshin begin to influence the humans in using Mana to summon monsters, destroy villages and lay waste to the landscape. Entire continents are drowned in the sea, others are turned into wastelands.
12. The Oiri decide to take measures in limiting the Veshin's power.
13. They found the source of Mana, a large tree in the navel of the world called the "mana tree" and destroyed it, sending shards of it's power across the landscape. Locked inside of the tree were the Mana spirits, the protective spirits of the mana force. They were a natural evulotion of the Mana itself, not created by the Gods but a biproduct of their creation. This weakens the mana power to a great extent, causing the power of the humans to lessen.
14. The Oiri then decide to destroy the land of the gods, leaving the Mana World unharmed and no longer controlled by the Veshin. A noble an honerable decision.
15. Six of the Veshin discover this plan ahead of time, and leave for the Mana World before it happens.
16. On the Mana World the Veshin need to take on the form of flesh. They can no longer influence the world, but desire to do so once again.
17. They split into seperate kingdoms, were through will and cunning they over throw the human leaders of each nation and rise to power.
18. They discover that they can indeed control the world once again if they are able to gather up all of the shards of the Mana tree. Thus wars break out in search of this lost artifact.
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Post by Kyokai » 09 Mar 2005, 22:38

I guess it's my turn to do some plotting, so here goes.

1. Time existed, but gods moved in shortly after. :)
2. The gods, for their entertainment, create a world in order to watch how it's peoples live and build, similar to a television program or a book.
3. In order to make the world run without their direct intervention, the gods created mana and the 9 spirits of mana, whose job it was to sustain the world and save the gods the trouble of micro-managing it.
4. The gods choose favorite humans and follow them, similar to the way we would follow characters in an anime or soap opera.
5. When their favorites are in danger, or things go bad, however, the gods intervened in the world for their benefit. This breaking of the rules made some of the gods upset.
6. Suddenly, their entertainment had become an interactive one, a fight for supremacy among the favorites of the gods.
7. The gods then split into two groups, the Veshin, or "those who change", and the Oiri, "those who remain".
8. The Veshin were those who taught humans to make war with mana and science, so that they could rally around the favored servants of the Veshin and conquer the mana world.
9. The Oiri consulted the 9 spirits of mana, and appointed their favorite humans as the first sages, in order to preserve the balance among mankind.
10. In this point a great war broke loose upon both heaven and earth. The gods fought one another as men fought below. The advanced technologies of the Veshin's followers against the powers of mana ruled by the servants of the Oiri.
11. The war in heaven became more fierce, however, than that below. It became inevitable that the world of the gods would unbalance and fall into the void.
12. The Veshin and Oiri were angry with one another, but they were not blind to the state of their world. They made a pact to call a truce, and to retreat to the mana world in the guise of humans so as to escape destruction along with their world.
13. Before escaping from their realm, the gods sealed off mankind's science and magic, and these were both forgotten. In order to make the world safe for their descent, they needed to ensure that the mana world would not unbalance as theirs had.
14. In the mana world, gods lost a great deal of their own powers. Seeing the destruction they had wreaked in their own world, the elemental spirits were unwilling to give their creators power over this world, as they feared what fate it might lead to.
15. Because of this, a group of the most powerful Veshin arose and rallied humans together with promises of power, prosperity, and knowledge. These humans formed 3 warlike kingdoms in the mana world, and constantly fight to overthrow both one another and the spirits.
16. The elemental spirits then called together the creatures of the world, and granted them power, in order to fight against the Veshin who wished to upset the balance. These creatures the humans began to call monsters.
17. The fallen Oiri believe that they can reconcile themselves with the spirits, and make the mana world a new heaven in time. They rule over 3 peaceful kingdoms.
18. At the present time, the 6 kingdoms of the world are in a state of quarreling with one another, as well as with the hoards of monsters created to repel them. It is a time of choosing: to side with the gods or the spirits; the Oiri, or the Veshin; the balance, or the pursuit of a new promised world?
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Post by Talaroc » 09 Mar 2005, 23:29

Kyokai: The reason I'm not so hot on "mana tree" is because it was so horribly overdone in SoM's storyline, that it bordered on humorous. I mean, let's see here...

In Secret of Mana, to beat the Mana Beast, who is attacking the Mana Fortress, you had to cast Mana Magic on the Knight of Mana, who is the son of the Mana Tree, to give him the Mana Sword.

I mean, come on. Like the game or not, that sounds stupid.


Anyway. My friend's storyline should be ready fairly soon. Be forewarned; it's likely going to be very, very different from any we've been looking at here.
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Post by mandrake » 10 Mar 2005, 01:04

Anyway. My friend's storyline should be ready fairly soon. Be forewarned; it's likely going to be very, very different from any we've been looking at here.
Then why shold it be used? She unwilling to meet with us, unwilling to read what had been do so far, and unwilling to try and fit everything together. What would the point be? Why even accept it?

Anyway, I think what you have their Kyokai brings in the best of everything we are trying to put together. I'm going to work on fleshing out the outline into an actual poetic peice. I plan on making it read like a creationist mythology story. Like an old bardic poem.
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Post by mandrake » 10 Mar 2005, 01:36

Ok, I wrote a bit. I still need to finish it, but I'll do that tomorrow. It's also just a first draft, a lot of this will probably be rewritten.

I sing to you of the time before the world,
I sing to you before the fall of the gods
When the gods had existed in the endless void of space itself
And the void existed in the darkness of time
The gods had known only loneliness and the shadow of each other
To relieve them of this pale that was becoming their existence
They set out to create a world to watch
Where people could live out lives
And entertain the gods in their void of the heavens

From the clouds they picked out of the chaos land and water
They plucked two stars from the sky
And created the first man and woman

They created Mana then
So that the world would run without their need
Like a giant clock they could sit and watch
As the humans below filled the earth
Creating cities and towns

The peaceful rolling hills with sheep on it
And the life of the farmers tending to the herd
Attracted each god
With some gods claiming favorites above the rest
Exalting some when others toiled

The favorite of the Goddess Arimara fell ill from a sickness that crawled from the sea
And Arimara broke the rule they had set
She intervened and healed her chosen one, nursed her back to health

Other gods watched with envy.

Soon a war broke out amongst the Gods
Each trying to exalt their favorites into mighty heroes
Into Gods on earth

The Gods split into two parties then
Tearing apart the heavens in their anger
One group was known as The Veshin, or those who change
The other was known as the Oiri, or those who watch

The Veshin taught their followers dark arts of science
Rising these men above the stature of normal men
Creating wars and turmoil

The Oiri, wise beyond their years
Set out to find the Spirits of Mana
For consultation on what to do
In fear that their world would be destroyed by the greed of the Veshin

Over seas and stars they traveled until finally
Each glowing pillar responded in the voice of a Mana spirit
And each gave them advice
?Seek out nine Sages
wise men who will watch over us
and protect the world from those who the Veshin control
bring them to us
and we will give them the power and authority to do this?

Thus the Oiri brought forth nine of the most worthy men and women
Took them to each pillar of light were the Mana spirits dwelled
And made sages out of the mere mortals
Created to protect the world from the pain and misery
That the Veshin were causing

Wars then followed
For forty years the earth bled
And the seas screamed with those being drowned inside of them
The war machines of the Veshin
Haunting the air with their smog and steel
The rising glow of the Mana from the sages
Burning across the world
As the two forces clashed and struggled

And even in the void of heaven
Where the gods dwelled
War was being waged
Pushing the heavens they called home
Into the nothingness that dwelled beyond the darkness

So a truce was called
Less the gods destroyed all that had been created
They had not forgotten the days before war
The centuries of peace
And watching the people climb up from tribes to civilization

They sent themselves to the Mana World
Sealing their powers into the nothingness beyond the void
The arts of science and magic being lost into the annals of time
The Mana spirits, recognizing the wisdom in this decision
Then banished the gods from ever again learning the art of Mana
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Post by Kyokai » 10 Mar 2005, 03:40

It's pretty good, mandrake. It does seem a bit too prose-ish to be a bardic sonnet, perhaps we should write it more as a story that is being told by an elder to children, than as a song...

Anyhow, It seems to be coming along well. I liked the vivid descriptions and the instances given. Maybe you can work more instances into the poem, and introduce more of the pantheon that we wll meet in the game, both Veshin and Oiri.

Lastly, in the second to last paragraph, you said "Less the gods destroyed...", I'm pretty sure you meant "Lest the gods destroyed..." anyhow, just a bit of nitpicking, in case you didn't catch it yourself :)

Talaroc: yeah, the whole "mana {thing}" was a bit overdone in SoM, but we'll do our best to avoid around that. For sincerity to the original, though, we at least owe the token of having a "mana tree".
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Post by Talaroc » 10 Mar 2005, 04:18

mandrake wrote:Then why shold it be used? She unwilling to meet with us, unwilling to read what had been do so far, and unwilling to try and fit everything together. What would the point be? Why even accept it?
You assume far too much. I've been discussing the whole project (everything from sotryline to systems to graphics) with her for a while now. She neither has nor knows the ins and outs of IRC, nor has the spare time to constantly check up on the forum and wiki. I sent her the story so far (though not the most recent updates, since they just happened) before she started working on it. The point is variety and options; I mean, as it stands now, the title of this thread is highly misleading. What's been going on hasn't been a full story rewrite, but just tweaking of the same story. Different perspectives on the same general idea, as brought in by wholly different storylines to look over, combine, tweak, and what have you, can bring in new ideas and ways of thinking about the game that we haven't tried yet. Thus far, everything's been from the single perspective.
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Post by Kyokai » 10 Mar 2005, 04:22

Talaroc wrote:What's been going on hasn't been a full story rewrite, but just tweaking of the same story. Different perspectives on the same general idea, as brought in by wholly different storylines to look over, combine, tweak, and what have you, can bring in new ideas and ways of thinking about the game that we haven't tried yet. Thus far, everything's been from the single perspective.
It's true that we have been rehashing the same story, since alot of things are already based off of it. (The entire world development section of the Wiki revolves around this story, as well as certain parts of our magic system). I think it's unwise to introduce a fundamentally new concept when we are so close to agreeing on one thing, and are already plotting so many other things around it.
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