Multi-Stat Items

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Effex
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Multi-Stat Items

Post by Effex » 03 Jun 2008, 12:58

Reading another post (about Chainmail gloves) got me thinking about the Item system in TMW. I think it's very Linear. Everyone has 1 objective. Get the 'best' item. So everyone ends up the same. Why not have some items that have better advantages than the 'best' equipment, but at a 'cost' to the user.

For Example:

A sword with +150 attack, but stops the user regaining health.
An armor with +35 Defense, at a cost of -10 Agility. (Heavy Armour, or something)

This could be left as basics, but also taken to extremes for people who want to take some risks:

A bow that gives a large + to attack, but reduces Defence to 0. (so if you can stay away from the enemies to use the bow, great. If not, you'll be left vulnerable)

There are clearly lots of things that can be done with this. Anyone else got any ideas? What do you all think?
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Dr Wahl » 03 Jun 2008, 16:05

Much will be changed once we move to the new server. There will be more defined roles for each player, and, if I'm not mistaken, there will be a bit more teamwork required.
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Sertraline » 03 Jun 2008, 16:38

We have been playing around with items like these on TME. These values are entirely possible on eAthena without any extra coding but only for equipment and for all stats except negative defense penalties. The client doesn't support more than one stat bonus visible, so the others are surprises to the player, unless they are explicitly written out in the description.
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Effex » 04 Jun 2008, 15:28

Dr Wahl wrote:Much will be changed once we move to the new server. There will be more defined roles for each player, and, if I'm not mistaken, there will be a bit more teamwork required.
I can appreciate this, but the new server wasn't really my concern. I was thinking about the game staying interesting and varied now, to keep people coming back until the new server rises from whichever dungeon you guys are keeping it :P
Sertraline wrote:We have been playing around with items like these on TME. These values are entirely possible on eAthena without any extra coding but only for equipment and for all stats except negative defense penalties. The client doesn't support more than one stat bonus visible, so the others are surprises to the player, unless they are explicitly written out in the description.
Does this mean that the other stats can be modified with negative values without any extra code? Of course, there could be effects like: ??? to keep some mystery. Would that mean it's not such a big leap from standard items?

On a (fairly) related note, what about randomness? Is there a way we could have subtle variations in the same weapons? Perhaps each scythe being between +70 and +80 (as an example). Or perhaps just one 'random' sword. A sword that ignores strength value to do random damage. Already there is some random element to attacks (I assume) based on every attack doing different damage. I was flicking through the Item page on the Wiki, as if the sword 'Setzer' isn't one giant excuse to have that ;)
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Crush » 04 Jun 2008, 15:33

Sertraline, did you also check what happens when the stats of a character are modified into negative values by items?
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Sertraline » 04 Jun 2008, 17:48

Effex wrote:Does this mean that the other stats can be modified with negative values without any extra code? Of course, there could be effects like: ??? to keep some mystery. Would that mean it's not such a big leap from standard items?

On a (fairly) related note, what about randomness? Is there a way we could have subtle variations in the same weapons? Perhaps each scythe being between +70 and +80 (as an example). Or perhaps just one 'random' sword. A sword that ignores strength value to do random damage. Already there is some random element to attacks (I assume) based on every attack doing different damage. I was flicking through the Item page on the Wiki, as if the sword 'Setzer' isn't one giant excuse to have that ;)
The answer to all of your questions is yes. eAthena supports it, the client can at least handle it even if it doesn't visually recognize it. We haven't tested equipment with random values, but we have tested healing items with random values and since that's supported I'd assume equipment is possible as well--but then you never know what eAthena will crash on, or what the TMW client was built to support. :wink:
Crush wrote:Sertraline, did you also check what happens when the stats of a character are modified into negative values by items?
This is where it gets tricky. The way these values are calculated is fairly complicated, and though the final product should never be negative (zero at the very least), the code doesn't allow any of the variables that go into the calculation to become negative.

We will definitely need to tweak this before it can really be used, but right now all we can do at TME is server-sided. Some assistance from someone familiar with the 0.0 client code would be appreciated (and I'm sure this could be fairly easily backported to 0.1).
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Crush » 04 Jun 2008, 18:04

This is where it gets tricky. The way these values are calculated is fairly complicated.
Please feel free to elaborate on the details - I am quite fit at mathematics.
Some assistance from someone familiar with the 0.0 client code would be appreciated (and I'm sure this could be fairly easily backported to 0.1).
We already have stat-changing items on TMWServ and their effect is displayed properly by the 0.1 client so backporting this is not required.

What capabilities exactly does the 0.0 client code lack?
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Re: Multi-Stat Items

Post by Effex » 11 Jun 2008, 11:35

Sertraline wrote:
The answer to all of your questions is yes. eAthena supports it, the client can at least handle it even if it doesn't visually recognize it. We haven't tested equipment with random values, but we have tested healing items with random values and since that's supported I'd assume equipment is possible as well--but then you never know what eAthena will crash on, or what the TMW client was built to support. :wink:
So it is all supported as far as we know? It could be interesting to test at least ;) It would add a lot more variation to the game if not every item that was the same, was exactly the same.
This is where it gets tricky. The way these values are calculated is fairly complicated.
I'd also like to hear an elaboration on those numbers if it's not too much trouble.
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