cooperation = more xp

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Booty
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cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 04 Jun 2008, 23:02

It is starting to get crowded in some areas of the game.

To help people get along and improve interaction how about making enemies killed by multiple players provide more xp than normal?
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fate
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by fate » 04 Jun 2008, 23:19

Hi,

from what I have been told and from what I have seen, that is already the case. A monster killed by two players has 110% of the experience points it would normally have, one killed by three has 120% and so on up to a maximum of 150%.

-- fate
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 05 Jun 2008, 00:45

I thought I saw something like this going on but dismissed it as programing errors. Well then it is a good feature, nice to see it implemented.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Squrd » 05 Jun 2008, 00:56

I would like to see a party system, Don't get mad at me if there is one just I probably don't know how to use it yet. But I believe thats fun to have a group of people and you get to share experience with each other it kinda brings our some sort of comradeship. Is there a guild system?
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Superkoop » 05 Jun 2008, 15:31

@Squrd there will be on the new server, TMWserv.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Crush » 05 Jun 2008, 16:07

There is a party- and a guild system implemented on the current server. Just noone wrote any client-sided support for it.

Any of the core devs are concentrating on TMWServ, so it is unlikely that there will be any initiative from within the development team. But maybe someone from the peripheral programmer community would be interested to research how the system works and program some support for it.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 10 Jun 2008, 05:59

fate wrote:Hi,

from what I have been told and from what I have seen, that is already the case. A monster killed by two players has 110% of the experience points it would normally have, one killed by three has 120% and so on up to a maximum of 150%.

-- fate

Okay so I tried this with some other players, some higher and some lower level than me and I found the bonus unsatisfying.

The bonus is not enough to dissuade me from working alone.

The time lost in approaching a target, locking on and hitting it when killing with others versus by yourself is so great that, at least in my case, one advances at half the rate.

This is a problem on its own. Coupled with the sometimes ambiguity of ownership of drops it leaves teamwork with a sour taste.

A large bonus would probably greatly interest higher level players in more cooperation (not saying they don't but i think most do it just because they get bored occasionally).

A bonus to stats would likely interest low level players and foster early teamwork.

Without significant team bonuses, or boss level monsters that require teamwork to kill I see little purpose to this being multi-player (versus a single player rpg) other than as a interactive chat program filled with spammers and bots.

If this sounds critical or harsh, I don't mean to be, I'm just giving my feedback and suggestions. Booty
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by bigglesworth » 10 Jun 2008, 08:15

edit: Decide in advance who will collect the drops. If your partners are untrustworthy, ditch them.
Last edited by bigglesworth on 10 Jun 2008, 08:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 10 Jun 2008, 08:17

That is a technique for killing difficult/powerful enemies, I'm talking about leveling, gaining EXP.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by niels.ellegaard » 10 Jun 2008, 19:06

Perhaps the best way to encourage group work is to change the xp-values. My experience is that the fastest way to get xp is to attack monsters that have trouble harming me. (Perhaps I have distributed my points badly I don't know).

Right now a giant maggot gives twice as many xp as a green slime, but perhaps it should give 4 times as many points. In general I think that you would see more team work if you replaced the xp-value of each monster with the xp-value squared. Of course the requirements for gaining new levels should also be changed so that you still needed to spend the same amount of time to gain levels.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 11 Jun 2008, 00:28

niels.ellegaard wrote:Perhaps the best way to encourage group work is to change the xp-values. My experience is that the fastest way to get xp is to attack monsters that have trouble harming me. (Perhaps I have distributed my points badly I don't know).
I find this the best way also. Best meaning fastest. However even attacking difficult enemies, such as mountain snakes, solo still works better for the EXP/Time ratio.
niels.ellegaard wrote: Right now a giant maggot gives twice as many xp as a green slime, but perhaps it should give 4 times as many points. In general I think that you would see more team work if you replaced the xp-value of each monster with the xp-value squared.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Perhaps something is lost in the wording. Most of the monsters are close to where they need to be in EXP points I think except maybe the really difficult ones, but I dont' really see that as a problem (or the issue I'm addressing).
niels.ellegaard wrote: Of course the requirements for gaining new levels should also be changed so that you still needed to spend the same amount of time to gain levels.
Are you suggesting the amount of time reaching level 3 from level 1 should be equal to reaching 93 from 90, or the reverse or perhaps something in between? Really any way it is a bad idea you will either wind up with a lot of weak "new" people that can't kill anything or a lot of really strong people. The only people that are having a tough time leveling are really really high leveled people. But again this isn't my issue.

My issue is promoting teamwork and cooperation in the game.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Superkoop » 11 Jun 2008, 01:38

I don't think the amount of experience the individual gains is what should be making people want to be friends in game. The only reason for a MMO is for social reasons, people fight together because they are friends, they shouldn't want to fight together just because they gain more experience.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 11 Jun 2008, 02:26

Superkoop wrote:I don't think the amount of experience the individual gains is what should be making people want to be friends in game. The only reason for a MMO is for social reasons, people fight together because they are friends, they shouldn't want to fight together just because they gain more experience.

This is ridiculous. An MMO has a social element yes because it has to in order to be an MMO, and yes there is a lot of that going on I've already called this game an interactive chat room. But remember this is supposed to be a game not a social club. People also play MMOs for challenges that are presented with the human element that you can't get from interacting with just AIs.

I agree with your statement partially, people want to fight together because they are friends, yes. Even if I'm just after EXP I don't want to fight with someone I dislike. Friendship is the reason you pick someone to fight with not the reason why you are fighting with someone.

It seems like most of the vets spend the majority of their time sitting in front of the plaza talking to friends, not fighting. It gets boring fighting but when your goal is to level you have to weigh boredom against even more time spent fighting to level with a team.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by niels.ellegaard » 12 Jun 2008, 19:32

Booty wrote:
niels.ellegaard wrote: Right now a giant maggot gives twice as many xp as a green slime, but perhaps it should give 4 times as many points. In general I think that you would see more team work if you replaced the xp-value of each monster with the xp-value squared.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Perhaps something is lost in the wording. Most of the monsters are close to where they need to be in EXP points I think except maybe the really difficult ones, but I dont' really see that as a problem (or the issue I'm addressing).
The times in the following example are somehat arbitrary, but I think the general idea is correct.

* Right now I can spend around 10 seconds killing a green slime to get 80 xp
* Right now I can spend around 60 seconds killing a giant maggot to get 160 xp (This includes resting to get the hit points back)
* Two players on my level can cooperate spend around 20 seconds killing a giant maggot to get somewhere 80 xp each.

The reason for the 20 seconds in the last line is that two players getting 50 points of damage each heal faster than one player getting 100 points of damage. Therefore they don't need to rest so long between fights, and that makes them earn more xp per minute. So if they don't buy a lot of healing (and they are not archers) then I think that it pays off for them to cooperate killing giant maggots.

The only problem is that green slime gives more xp per minute than giant maggots. I heal fast enough to be somewhat invulnerable to green slime, and therefore it does not pay of for me to cooperate against green slime. If giant maggots gave four times as many xp as green slime then it would start paying off for me to cooperate to kill giant maggots rather than killing green slime alone.
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Re: cooperation = more xp

Post by Booty » 13 Jun 2008, 07:51

Ah, I see what you mean. As much as I appreciate your commenting, that is not the issue I'm raising. You should start a new thread for find another thread that addresses your issue.
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