Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

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zick
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Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by zick » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:01 pm

Can "scroll bounds" be something that is added to the map format? For those who don't know what scrolling bounds are, here's an explanation: A scroll bound would be a marker that forces the client to stop scrolling even if the player moves closer to the edge of a map. This would be especially useful on a map that contains multiple map "areas" that you can warp to while not technically switching what map file you're using. These map scroll bounds would only allow the client to scroll to the edge of the bounds while a player is within a bound, allowing each map "area" to have its own set of scroll bounds. This will allow map makers to compact their maps, if there are multiple map areas, as opposed to padding areas with extra trees or thick walls or "black regions" just to keep a player from seeing that there is some other location on that map. Yes, I know you can just open the map in tiled and see what's there, but there's no way to stop that other than encrypting map data. Also scroll bounds shouldn't actually be like the variety of types of bounds that prevent player movement (scroll bounds affect scroll movement not player movement). I'd actually like to use scroll bounds to create an area outside of the viewable/scrollable area of a map where monsters spawn and then move into the viewable area ... thus eliminating the spawn "out-of-thin-air" effect*.

*One of the things that really urks me about TMW ... probably the main one.

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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Bjørn » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:17 pm

A very good idea I think! Fortunately the development version of Tiled already has support for objects of arbitrary size thanks to ElvenProgrammer, so it doesn't need any changes to add support for scroll bounds. The trickier part will be to implement this in the engine, though I don't see any major issues there.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by zick » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:22 pm

The big man thought I had a good idea ... yeah!
I'm so gonna let this go to my head!
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Crush » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:21 pm

I don't like this idea very much. We got the 20 tile map borders for a reason - to avoid the break of immersion when the screen suddenly stops scrolling and thus tells you "invisible barrier ahead".

The plan of using it as a hack to spawn monsters "outside of the map" and then make them wander in is not a good idea either. What when the monster decides to stay inside the unviewable spawn area and starts to attack the players character? The player would have to fight an enemy it can't see without any apparent in-game reason.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by zick » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:35 pm

Crush wrote:What when the monster decides to stay inside the unviewable spawn area and starts to attack the players character? The player would have to fight an enemy it can't see without any apparent in-game reason.
I guess monsters AI would make want to leave this "unseen" area to hunt, to loot, or whatever the monster does. I'm sure there may be a couple of monsters that might spawn in this area and wait there for awhile, but maybe if the server code is changed so that 2 monsters cannot occupy the same tile, then monsters will be forced out ... I'm not sure how an enemy can attack something thats far away like a player, especially with no magic implemented yet. I'll draw a little ascii-art map so you can understand what I'm talking about in case there's any confusion ...

Code: Select all

" + | - " are edge tiles defining the shape of the map
" # " are scroll bounds
" * " are spawn points
" @ " are warp tile to another map area (only affects players not mobs)
" ^ " player's sprite
" / " signifies the viewport around character

   +-----+
   |  *  |
###|#####|#############
#+-+@@@@@+-----------+#
#|                   |#
#|   ////////////    |#
#|   /          /    |#
#|   /     ^    /    |#
#|   /          /    |#
#|   ////////////    |#
#|                   |#
#|                   |#
#|                   |#
#+-------------------+#
#######################
My idea of using this offscreen area to spawn monsters will make it appear that monsters are migrating into the area for food or maybe its part of their instincts, like real animals do.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Crush » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:42 pm

zick wrote:I'm not sure how an enemy can attack something thats far away like a player, especially with no magic implemented yet.
You thought patterns are still focused on eAthena and not TMWServ.
My idea of using this offscreen area to spawn monsters will make it appear that monsters are migrating into the area for food or maybe its part of their instincts, like real animals do.
Having very small spawn areas (like at map intersections) is not a good idea gameplay-wise because it makes it very easy to camp this point and spam it with AoE spells. Your intention to find a justification for monsters appearing on the map and visualize it somehow is good, but this is just a wrong method gameplay-wise.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Rotonen » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:25 pm

Although in a cleverly designed maze these barriers would prevent you from seeing through walls (I know there are better ways to implement field of vision / fog of war. Also it is far too trivial just to remove the feature from the client.)
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by zick » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:08 pm

Maybe the server can recognize when someone is camping and use another spawn point ... just an idea.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Rotonen » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:06 pm

We have plans for a little more complicated system for simulating ecological nichés. Danger would be a reason for migration, yes.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by zick » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:21 pm

@Rotonen:
I had another idea that I was probably going to put in another thread but I'll put a brief taste here and see what you think.
I'd like to see the ability to define territories in the mapdata that belong to a specific species of monster. Ex: a tall grass area around a stream or pond, a circular clearing on a path through the woods, etc. These territories are then occupied by groups of monsters that defend the territory or attempt to flee the territory when it is encroached by a player. This would simulate another behavior that you see in nature.
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Re: Scrolling boundaries on maps ...

Post by Shaggy » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:40 pm

zick wrote:@Rotonen:
I had another idea that I was probably going to put in another thread but I'll put a brief taste here and see what you think.
I'd like to see the ability to define territories in the mapdata that belong to a specific species of monster. Ex: a tall grass area around a stream or pond, a circular clearing on a path through the woods, etc. These territories are then occupied by groups of monsters that defend the territory or attempt to flee the territory when it is encroached by a player. This would simulate another behavior that you see in nature.
I think that is a good idea.
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