Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

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Wombat
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Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Wombat » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:17 am

GMs are running around provoking players into hostility and getting other players to take screenshots. This is ridiculous. I'm suggesting the Devs recall all GMs and reinstate Platyna in her former role as she didn't abuse her powers to have "fun" by destroying characters in the game.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Matt » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:08 am

Yeah our new GMs suck. :roll:
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by MasterKenobi » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:17 pm

uhh.........I vote no :wink:


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Last edited by MasterKenobi on Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Wombat » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:27 pm

I think I was a little harsh with this suggestion. MK and Vink both haven't shown any instances of abuse to my knowledge. I think what I'm really wanting is just this: Ignoring Players instead of Reporting Them
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Turmfalke » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:41 am

I don't think crossposting will help you here.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Len » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:42 am

Wombat wrote:GMs are running around provoking players into hostility and getting other players to take screenshots. This is ridiculous. I'm suggesting the Devs recall all GMs and reinstate Platyna in her former role as she didn't abuse her powers to have "fun" by destroying characters in the game.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by 5t3v3 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:31 pm

Wombat,
You know that I've agreed with your p.o.v. in the past, and have considered your behavior as an enrichment for the role-play environment, especially back in the days when you were openly admitting that this was just fun and games. Then later on when you were debating over campers and how your attempts to disrupt them was your rightful alternative way of enjoying the game. Although I wonder how sincere that argument was, I could still see the logic of it, and grant that it was indeed hypocrite of your opponents to demand you'd stop. However I think that, without fully realizing it, you have now crossed symbolic line with your newest approach in the latest treads. Hence I would like to invite you to take a step back and reflect on your position.

To be frank, I think you've got caught up in the momentum of your movement, and lost track of what your goal was that you initial had set before you. The gm's exist for a single purpose, to make the game enjoyable for the biggest possible amount of people. Rules are not a purpose by them self, but are instead a method of trying to reach that purpose.

It's true that the rules are sometimes vague, but I consider that a good thing. Rather then allowing the game to become bureaucratic, I think it's wise to leave room for interpretation and judgment calls to the gm's. For example if a gm then interpreters an offensive character name as a violation of the "abuse-rule". I don't think said gm should be questioned for it. After all, the underlying purpose of the gm is obviously to keep the game free of racial and sexual content that are inappropriate for our younger players.

Likewise I also think it should be left to the gm's themselves to decide whether or not they simply sit at the side waiting for reports or go out seeking offenders actively, or even checking how provokable people are.

I think all in all the gm's are all very open-minded and reasonable people, and tmw has a very open, layed-back rule-enforcement. If they were even half as malevolent as they are sometimes made out to be, there would be practically nobody on-line anymore as almost everybody could have been banned sooner or later on "technicalities".

Finally I'd would like to add that I respect your opinion, I'm not looking for a discussion/debate here, I merely wanted to add mine at its side.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Wombat » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:44 pm

I appreciate your thoughts Steve,

I admit that my initial suggestion was aggressive, but it also was meant to serve a purpose. While I have taken a step back from this, I have taken my step back only because I feel the GMs can agree with me that we players should find ways of handling most perceived abuses ourselves first and then if it continues despite our efforts as players, we turn to the Devs/GMs for assistance on a problem.

It should be said the GMs are there for us all, not just those that make mountains out of molehills. Players don't need to report on other players for every perceived insult or annoyance when we have the tools available to virtually erase most of these problems.

As for "abusive" names, I stand beside Platyna that we shouldn't aim to censor, moderate or eliminate players. Those players that have chosen a silly name like "Penis" or "alotta fagina" aren't a threat to our eyes unless we make it so. My response to this could of gone the opposite direction and I could've made perceived borderline named characters as these two players did to expose the absurdity of it, but instead I decided to report the tree that looks like a penis. Sometimes the gray area is somewhat agreeable, like "Nigga Ride Heavy"'s ban and other times I almost absolutely agree with bans like the "sugarshit" ban because they implicitly or explicitly insult a person or group of people without consideration of how these names may make people feel when this is just a game to have fun. I am not involved in some activist or insurgent quest to liberate the players from the grip of the GMs and I accept that not everyone can be GMs, like the child.motherless.com server, if we are to have the type of fun that is challenging to a fantasy environment.

I don't agree that GMs should be checking how to provoke people into saying naughty things so they can create an abuse report. Nor do I agree GMs should be actively searching/following those they think are abusive based on an individual or a cluster of gamefriends reporting an enemy they have developed from previous interactions. Many times it is those that want to avoid taking care of a problem themselves (by developing counter strategies or putting characters on ignore) that are fast to report players over abuses.

GMs should request players do what is in their power as players to overcome these problems first and then if they still feel a problem is persistent and can't be overcome by developing a counter strategy or by ostracizing (ignoring) the player(s) they have a problem with, intervention of some sort might be needed. The GMs could work with the Devs where a "suggestion" might be better than a "ban". I also think the GMs could take advantage of my own precedent of "player community" meetings to discuss issues and make suggestions to players directly.

For instance, players that sit in town seem to have more problems with annoying players and threaten reports on beggars and annoying players instead of encouraging other players in town to just put the annoyance on ignore. I think GMs and Player leaders could do better to encourage the player community in town to work together to keep the fun experience in game without threatening other players while at the same time tackling annoying players so they know the players don't have to tolerate problems they feel may affect them.

Other than that, I do find the GMs to be mostly reasonable, but they are also human and may want to "get" a player before all other options have been exhausted. The precedent set by Platyna is that this game is not necessarily for children (i.e. is not necessarily for censoring players, which is what this "children" nonsense is really about). But it also isn't for maintaining ugly social relations between players either. I think excessive problems can be created, but by lightening up a little bit, we can find a more enjoyable experience by empowering players and making GMs a last resort. Granting GMs too much power leads to abuses in power and players should not be afraid to put GMs in check for it. I have been told multiple times to report GMs by Devs should they seem to be exercising their powers on the level of abuse. This thread is the result of a frustration that I also somewhat "abused", when calming down and reassessing the problem allowed me to work with GMs better than having a forum battle over the problem.

Under player talk, I posted "Ignoring Players Instead of Reporting Them" and found a resolution based on "Master Kenobi"'s response to a recent problem in the Court House where he suggested the players just ignore each other and move on. As I stated in "Ignoring Players Instead of Reporting Them" in my last comment (as of posting this) I dropped my present cases against the GMs if this precedent stands for how GMs interact with players. As of posting this comment, I feel no real problems with the GMs and I thank them for their efforts for attempting to foster a healthy gaming environment for all.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by 5t3v3 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:19 pm

Thanks for your response. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I consider it more "civil" to put a temporary ban on an offender, and then after the lesson is learned give the opportunity to come back, rather then encouraging the larger part of the players to "excommunicate" by ignore-functions which is in a way allot crueler (and allot harder for second chances).

I have currently Zero people on my ignore list. To each his own I guess ^_^
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Platyna » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:41 pm

I resigned from the role of eA admin because of disagreement with Bjorn and because, after project became popular and successful, my role started to be underestimated by him (as he said, he is fed up with my attitude).

I am not a nice person, far from being a cute kitten, but indeed I tried to be fair and implement sane rules.

And I have already told Bjorn that I may come back under two conditions:
1. He will grant me all my priviledges back.
2. He will publicly apologize me for his behaviour, and admit he has treaten me unfairly.

Anyway, remember I am still wandering on this forum, and I love ya. ;-)

Regards.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Wombat » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:56 pm

Steve, I think we may agree a little more than what you may think. I was using the "ignore" feature as an example in it's present context, which seems to wipe clean ignored players when a player logs out and back into the game. I was saying "persistent problem" in this context and I also agree that sometimes a temp ban might be a reasonable response if temporary ignores seem to fail. I don't think I'd favor a permanent ignore as a player option for much the same reason you suggest. I think if the GMs wanted to use this conversation as an aid, it could be helpful, but also I think the GMs already seem to have a decent grasp on what is necessary to do in most situations. I hope this can be seen as a constructive conversation for all and apologize if anyone felt threatened by my initial approach.

P.S. Hi Platyna! I would welcome your return to the game and hope that you and Bjorn can resolve your issues. As I didn't see the problems between you and Bjorn publicly, I think you and Bjorn might be able to make up privately and perhaps he can just welcome you back publicly? A personal thought, I find it often difficult to apologize in public, especially when it feels forced. I'm sure many people wouldn't think less of the either of you if the bad blood would go away without stipulation.
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by Platyna » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Well, he could publicly say that I lie and have a bad attitude (bad attitude meant establishing clear and fair rules, such as no powers to random people and family members). Anyway this is not going to happen anyway since Bjorn thinks he did nothing wrong, so there is nothing to discuss at all. ;-)

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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by WarGod » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:14 pm

We need Platyna back bjorn ! Please do this for us !
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Re: Recall GMs and Revert Platyna

Post by bigglesworth » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:01 am

Wombat! My favorite player-character's name isn't silly! Although she's a minor villain, I demand she be treated serious.

In fact, she has her own (cough, cough) redirected Wikipedia page!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alotta_Fagina

Besides, 'penis' is just vulgar. ;)
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