Nitemares, PrettyKill, and Dark Water are married.

[DarkWater]

We have decided to form a three way marriage between us.

But the game will not allow us to do it. Which is fine, show the Christian background of the game.

It also shows where marriage is flawed in the game.

I have married these two. I will stay married to them.

But we need more bite to marriage.

First.
The number of people should not matter. Marriage is between two people in the real world for REPRODUCTION only. In the real world, two people get married because it creates a clear line of inheritance. The first born, second born, and all the rest. Having more then two people makes either who is the daddy or makes the direct line impossible to tell or not. Now In the game we can do reproduction, but you hardly need two people nor do you need to have anything but the ability to click a button. So there should be no limit on the how many people you can marry.

Secondly.
Marriage is to the death. To make a divorce option is just stupid. Once again this is not real life. In real life, you partner can abuse you, beat you, and kill you. In the mana world they can say a few nasty things and then you ignore them. Divorce in the real world is a way to escape because the partner may depend on the other person for everything. In the mana world, this is just not so. The person does not need anything, nor doe the person live under physical or emotion abuse.

Thirdly.
What is yours is mine. Marriage should allow complete sharing among all people in the marriage. Everyone. What gold partner A has partner b has. What items partner A has partner b has. There is no line. What is added to the one inventory is shown in the other. What is removed from on inventory, should be removed from the other.

Lastly,
What expense points partner a acquires partner b shares. If they are fighting together. They share no matter lvl.

So what does this mean. Well we need to change what marriage is or we need to allow a different form of marriage.

We need to allow marriage in from one,"I love you today, but not tomorrow."

And marriage in form two. "Until the server deletes us. It is pack, it is a bond, and it is trust to the end."


What the game calls marriage is cheap, degrading, and bias towards real world Christian values.
I understand that this is not possible and energies should be focused on the next server. But this needs to be talked about.

We need to be able to form bonds between players that are deeper then marriage. Since we are going to degrade marriage to just liking someone alot.

[Ceros]

uh, does your version of marriage include allowances for Prenups?

[Booth]

yes, i was thinking prenup's also lmao. I definately need one if i get married.

[Kill3rZ]

OH, you have no idea how people would use this to scam each other. So many single rich boys in this game! It's completely worth creating and advancing a female character's level beyond reasonable doubt if you're going to steal a whole bunch of stuff from your husband deleting your character immediately after. Hell, it's even worth staying married to the poor bastard, buying ores with his cash and using them to advance your main character mage. Once you're married there is no way for him to stop you, no matter what you chose to do. No, no, no. Sharing all resources with no border line is a bad idea. In RL a wife doesn't get to cash in my paycheck. I still get the choice of bringing it all home or not. I can CHOSE to make some ownership documents in the name of my wife, but that doesn't and shouldn't come automatically with a simple "I do". Not in game and not in real life.

Second: Marriage should not be "till death or server reset do us part". What if I married when I was relatively noob and thought it was a cool idea without fully understanding the consequences? What if my in-game spouse is a scammer trying to take advantage of me and I discover that? What if I really fall in love with someone else?

Third: for xp sharing, you can already make a party with your spouse(s) and enable that option. It has advantages and disadvantages, but hey, at least you can disable it when it gets really annoying (which it does eventually).

Besides, some people take this game too seriously as it is. If you feel the need to take in-game marriage to the next level, there is nothing stopping you from bringing the entire issue in your real lives.

[Kill3rZ]

What the game calls marriage is cheap, degrading, and bias towards real world Christian values.

....

We need to be able to form bonds between players that are deeper then marriage. Since we are going to degrade marriage to just liking someone alot.

OK, I'm actually going to take this one seriously.

Marriage is what you make it be. In game and in life. It's not about how many vows and official bindings you get, but what is in your heart. Did you ever have to share a room for hours alone with someone you really , really, really hate? That is not even close to being married to someone you don't even like any more, to have all kinds of obligations and to have absolutely no way out of it (other than suicide - again: in-game or in-life). Marriage should be about love, not about putting your free will in jail for the rest of your life.

No matter how binding and definitive you make it, there will still be stupid people who will do "the marriage that lasts forever" without thinking. That will take "degrading" to a whole other level. Oh, next thing you'll know people will ask for wife-beating and kicking your man in the nuts to be possible in game too. Just wait and see.


Make divorce even more expensive if you feel that is the real problem there.


About christian values, you might have something there. Other than monogamy is there anything else bothering you about the way it is now? And if you really think polygamy is a good idea, do you still think it should be called marriage when we'll have 20 people married to each other? What if 19 of them want to accept a 21st spouse and the 20th refuses? Should marriage be democratic or one of them can unilaterally refuse? If I can't refuse, can you really get me married against my will? Do I have the right to chose what 19 other people can and cannot do? What if 15 of the people are really angry with the one who refuses and would like to kick him/her out of the family?

[Jumpy]

post to everyone and not directed to any person who posted (that means not trolling so no offense)

i am not going to talk about Christian or any other religion"s values

but society

our society is a consumer society. nothing else in most of what we are experimenting in life
and life is this way too

choose (chosen), use (used), throw (thrown) away

mariage is now most of the time in that line RL and more in IG

Regards

ps: your values are reflected by your acts not by your thoughts and cannot be judged by anyone till it doen't bless or kill others

[fate]

DarkWater,

first of all, congratulations to your second in-game marriage!

What expense points partner a acquires partner b shares. If they are fighting together. They share no matter lvl.

This would encourage players to exploit the marriage mechanism for game benefits, i.e., to marry `without love'. That doesn't seem to be what you had in mind.

We need to allow marriage in from one,"I love you today, but not tomorrow."

And marriage in form two. "Until the server deletes us. It is pack, it is a bond, and it is trust to the end."

That is actually an interesting idea. I am not sure if there are any real-world cultures that have such a setup, so I am not sure what its implications would be. Whether or not that will make it into the server depends on the cultural background of the Mana World, though. As you know, for eAthena we're just putting `fun' things together when they are ready, but for tmwserv the idea is to have a fully designed backstory, including culture. If you want to see your ideas incorporated, I'd like to encourage you to have a look at what has already been written on such topics, specifically

http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Marriage

This is an unevaluated proposal that seems to suggest that different cultures on the Mana World would permit different kinds of marriages. If you can help flesh out the background on the wiki and propose different kinds of societies (and perhaps even rituals) for the marriage structure, chances of your ideas making it in will be significantly higher.

What the game calls marriage is cheap, degrading, and bias towards real world Christian values.

(a) My personal impression is that most real-life marriages are not about true love either (unfortunately). This is something that the game simply can't test. If two friends want to marry just so that they show up on the `married couples' roster, there is nothing we can do to prevent that.
(b) Recall that the current tmw is based on the English localisation of a Ragnarok Online server implementation. That is, it's a Japanese re-implementation of a server for a Korean MMORPG that was later translated into English. While Christianity did have a cultural impact on both Japanese and Korean societies, that impact was nowhere near pronounced enough to explain eAthena's intrinsic implementation choices.
(c) Most (or, at least, many) Christian denominations, including the biggest one, do not (yet) permit homosexual marriage. Ragnarok Online doesn't allow it, either, though tmw does (we eliminated the relatively small amount of gender specifity in the server, mostly tied to having two different wedding ring items).

-- fate

[DarkWater]

To the above post.

That is why we need two forms of marriages. One is your standard issue marriage, with divorce ect....


The second is a clan system in which you share your items, you life, and time.

You do not have to choose the second form at all. You do not need to.

But, for most people in this world. There are two forms of relationships, one that is simply a matter of reproduction, and begins and ends at such. The second is a bond.

Look at it this way. There is the person that you want to have sex with, ie you wife. And there is a person that you would die for.

Your bother is a person that you would die for, but not haves sex with.

People here are stuck in a Christian mind frame of marriage. They are also stuck in a reference to "love."

But real world marriage does not mean anything here. You can not kiss in this world. You can not hold hands. You can not do anything of those things.


We have people "setting on each other" because it is what you do. In reality, in some clients you may be "off the stack."

If you are going to have marriage. That is fine. But allow some plays to have something more.

I am not talking about love, happiness, or ownership.

But trust, honor, and respect.

Once again. Why cheapen marriage? If you want it so bad, why not make a form that is more perfect then the real world could offer.

Let me offer this person story.

I had dinner with to friends last night. They are 76 and 78 years old. They are my neighbours. They have been married for 60 years. They have been together all their natural lives.

They shared everything, nothing was hidden, there was no you or I, just them.

But you see, they are not married, not legally. They are gay. And in the united states they still can not be called married.

They have bond that is deeper anything most of us will ever know or even understand.

They have a different form of marriage. One that has no bounds nor limits.

Their lives are made up of more then just ideas on a paper or concepts created by society. It is more then physical, metal, or emotion attraction. It is just simply more.

In the mana world, relationships will never be physical, metal or emotion. Like the real world, those can be faked, plotted, planned and devised.

And that is the problem.

People begin to abuse the system. Someone finds a rich person. Becomes friends, cons them into marriage. And then soaks him/her until the next person comes along.

This is not right nor is it fair.

Now for the rest. This is only one character. Not all characters.

I think almost everyone has a mule. I could be wrong, but I can not carry all my stuff with me.

In the second form a marriage, mules do not count.

If you transfer something to your mule, you have locked it out of the marriage. Same with money. So your ideas of some person grubbing for items and money is unfounded.

Lastly, I suggested above and here again. This will not replace marriage, but extend it. As an option.

On one hand, you can become alot more powerful. On the other, you must trust those you marry.

With out this system. There is really no point in getting married, besides a social event in which you trying to impress the rest of the world with how mature you are.

We can even change the name to clan or guilds. But it needs to be in the game. To form a tight net society. A society that can only form with physical bonds. In the real world it is touching, holding, and being with the people you care about. In the mana world, there needs to be a physical effect too.

[DarkWater]

That is actually an interesting idea. I am not sure if there are any real-world cultures that have such a setup, so I am not sure what its implications would be. Whether or not that will make it into the server depends on the cultural background of the Mana World, though.

I am not bashing the current system. Just offer a different line of perspective.

As for realworld accounts. Humans, man, has be walking on this planet for about 2.5 million years. That is 2,500,000 years.

During the vast majority, the 2,490,000 years of it. Clans where more important then individual marriage.

Native Americans have very little concept of ownership.

I was not say that we should use this in the current server, but need to be address in the next one.

Even if it limited on a clan chest. In which everyone in the clan can use the one chest.

[DarkWater]

our society is a consumer society. nothing else in most of what we are experimenting in life
and life is this way too

Who society is that jumpy? And maybe we should stop letting that society control everything?

[InspectorShameless]

As for realworld accounts. Humans, man, has be walking on this planet for about 2.5 million years. That is 2,500,000 years.
During the vast majority, the 2,490,000 years of it. Clans where more important then individual marriage.

! ! ! B L A S P H E M Y ! ! !

How possible ??? God created Earth and Man about 4000 years ago !!!

If you need a proof of it, just have a glance at God's Pretty Little Angels :

• • 

they look so nice, helpfull and YOUNG !!!!


~ Of course, if you don't believe in God everything is okay so why do you bother about Christian Marriage ??

[Crush]

See http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Marriage for possible future plans regarding marriage.

[Kill3rZ]

Aw come on! Clan thing for resource sharing now? I would only trust one person for that because I would willingly give her all I have, but a second person is very unlikely to come into discussion.

Tell you what: Make a new character, store all the money and valuables on it and share the password with everybody you wish. I didn't hear about people (other than you) who would need a system like that implemented in the game. I agree, my solution is not the most comfortable one, but it's way easier on the developers.

My guess is that the thing you really wish to accomplish is not sharing resources and love and friendship and xp (you can get all those by using the actual game features and simple human relations), but getting official recognition, the power to bind other people to their word and maybe a cool name too.

Oh, oh, I'm going to love this. Guys, do we remember what happened with people with low property-sense? Do you see many Native Americans left around? If you still see any, do they own anything at all any more? Property sense is necessary for survival. It keeps you alive and feeding. Lack of it makes you a sitting target for greedy people, but we don't have those in TMW, now do we?

Please, please oh, please implement this. Scammers and greedy players really need something like this to prosper.

[bigglesworth]

Married and single players will always all be prisoners of the developers' definition of marriage, independent of the popular world view.

edit: added "Married and single..." & "independent..."

[Viscous Viscera]

According to me, marriage shouldn't be in game because:
1) It's crap...
2) It's crap...
3) It's crap...
4) Adding marriage to the game will encourage this kind of lame, pointless "3rd" marriage topix...
Also, words like "lesbian", "gay" and stuff... COME ON 11 YEAR OLDS PLAY THIS GAME TOO... (Gouki for example, he assumes that I'm Uber_Kalimero so he called me a "Duck" yesterday, funny ayeh?
5) It's lame...
6) It's lame...
A N D...
IT IS LAME