Economic situation in tmw

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Jumpy
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Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jumpy » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:01 am

hi there

here are some of my thoughts regarding economic system in tmw now

one thing is the rares or semi that have gone out of price and value
another is how economic impact on the game in itself

everything is buyable.
ej: i am a warrior, i need equipement i just go in bat cave, kill bats botting and then buy the equipment piece by piece
consequence i 'll be full equiped at level 40 or around.

that's just a fake warrior
this is imho not the game

fighting for the drops to gain equipements is much more valuable than just buying them.
by fighting you have interest
by fighting you give value to the time you spent
...
etc

imho equipement such as armor pieces should not be buyable or tradable, dropable.
you fight for them you have them.
and this for any category
mage robe and amulets
bow and archer clothes
armors and weapons

i am talking about those items

this would discourage botting for financial issues to buy the equipment
botting for levels will get its solution through the respawn of the mobs as it has been done with sea slimes
camping is an oportunity to socialize but also for botters or players specialized in leveling to gain their xp
maybe it could be technically possible to change the ratios of xps when someone just stack with their caps and num lock keys
detecting a not mooving and use of those keys cutting the xp the campers get this way

but back to economy in itself

economy is always regulated if not by states, governemnt it is through distributors, the all chain
arriving with big bucks and buying everything you need quits a part of the effort and value for the game
economy should be regulated somehow maybe
(opening debate)

etc more thoughts to come

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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Booth » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:10 am

then all the high levels will stay in the area that drops them and start becoming rich off of the people that cant get good armor
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Ceros » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:45 pm

Jumpy wrote:stuff
Eh, while I think you opened an interesting topic (one I have discussed before with Devs) I think you are going in the wrong direction. What you are suggesting is limiting the freedom of players - instead of fixing the underlying issue in the game, you just want to stop the end result. By that, I mean you want to stop the ability to trade between individuals, when the problem isn't trading, the problem is that it is too easy to get money via batting/botting.

Currently, if someone is short on funds, they are always told "Well, you'd better head for the batcaves" as a way of getting more money. I have heard various Devs talk about there not being a money sink currently in game - and this is part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that it is too easy to get money currently. The bat caves are like a license to print money, to coin an expression. It's just too easy.

I suggest lowering the value of bat wings and teeth, reducing the frequency that they spawn in the bat caves, or reducing their drop rate. If you do this, it effects prices across the realm.

Another proble is people not realizing the value of items they sell. As I discussed with one developer, Iron Ore sold for 2k-5k when I started playing the game. I saw that everyone needed Iron Ore at least once for armor and weapons, as well as quests and mages needed it continuously for lightning. I began buying up all the iron ore I could find at 5k and then reselling at 7k. Eventually, all major sellers observed this and prices went up (ore sold for around 10k regularly at one point).
l
When examining the price of an item, one needs to think "How long does it take me to get this items normally?" The time it takes you to grind Iron Ore from yellow slimes. And then consider "How long does it take me to bat for this item?" How long would it take to go to the bat caves and earn the 10k it costs for iron ore. If the time to bat is less then the time to grind, most users will purchase. This should be considered when setting selling prices, as some things are grossly underpriced for the amount of effort it requires to get the item vs the amount of effort it takes to bat for the item.

/treatise on economics
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by salmondine » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:35 pm

Limiting some items by level, and making some items non-trad-able would be good.
Bone Knife & Setzer are quest items unavailable till lvl's 40 & 60- IMO these should be untradable.
*personally I would limit blacksmith helms and shield availability, by level, and make non-trad-able.

+1 on bat drops being the standard for ( gathering time spent ) = ( item value), but even here level and available restat points give high levels a huge advantage.

Boredom is the limiting factor here...how long can you stand grinding bats?

As for a money sink? restating is a great money sink as each area has an optimum stat range.
I have suggested npc's that sell temporary items and stat boosts.

The red slime drop rate is too low these days to equal bat drop per hour values, changing this alone would relive some tedium.
Selling anything is a major hassle, to bad there is no interface for a marketplace/mall for all to sell in = no in game selling spam. I bet peavy could do this =]
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jumpy » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:27 am

+1 for the bats

-10 on my intentions Ceros as i don't requiere or ask or say this has to be implemented

i am just pointing that the way economy is going in tmw is well done but has to improve in several direction.

- rate drops
- values of drops
- items to be untradable or sellable except maybe to npc

thanks all for your comments and ideas

waiting or more on how you feel when:...
- you just made 100.000 on killing bats in 2 hours...
- you just reached level 30 and have already bought all your equipement...
- you made a quest and gain the price...
- you've just get an inf helmet or a pair of jeans after spending one week fighting to get one (stacking or alone)...
- you would like to buy a elf hat and you just don't know what, where, when...
- ...

there is also the option of not saying anything or just say: who cares and so on type of answers in order to wash your hands

Regards

with some provocation sweet and tender so that we get in debate and not in offensing other

everyone; anyone is free to have his opinion and express it and so do the others :) reciprocity in sharing ideas
tks
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Ceros » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:24 am

Jumpy wrote:whut
English, motherfucker, do you speak it. I didn't understand half your post, sorry (mostly, the latter half).
Jumpy wrote: -10 on my intentions Ceros as i don't requiere or ask or say this has to be implemented
Sorry, but I don't require you to say that this doesn't need to be implemented. I believe in all honesty it DOES need to be implemented. If you make a post called "Economic situation in tmw" expect other people to toss their feedback in as well, not just comment on your input. I don't think that limiting items needs to be enforced, because if you removed newbies being able to go and grind out 400k in a day in the bat caves then they wouldn't have the money to buy the items they seek easily. They'd have to do something much harder where the benefit/time ratio is way off, or where they aren't a high enough level (or don't have the proper gear) to grind for it (IE, red slimes). Bats are the problem because they are easy to kill, they drop too much too often and anyone can do it (once you have a forest bow, anyways).

If you can't trade certain items then mules couldn't exist for many items, because level caps/trading restrictions prevent the player from passing it back and forth.
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jumpy » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:33 pm

hi Ceros

my english is what it is and at least i stay correct in the words i employ... not as you do... insulting etc...
so if you have valuable things to say, say them in a proper way instead of insulting please

anyway...

i am talking about a game in development and the way economics are set right now. i am just exploring other ways. bringing ideas.

you don't agree with them :) great! stand your point of view.

i am openminded to any comment.

have a nice day and have fun.

Regards

oh by the way i reached lvl 96 and 11 % gaining my items and bought only a very few of them
i was given let's say 10 iron ore, 10 snake skins, 1 inf helmet, 1 scythe, 1 leather glove and Forge gave me my first hats from jack0. i bought only the rares and semi rares i got and some only buyable items for my 100 items collection, the rest i've been fighting for it.
ask around how many items i gave :) i sold few. never got rich in a way :D

so it took me from january 20th 2009 till now to reach my level.
i never botted and yes camped some time in skull room like 20 % of each level. the rest of the time i hunt, help, make friends,
another way of playing the game maybe... (ironic).
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Ceros » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:17 pm

Jumpy wrote:oh by the way i reached lvl 96 and 11 % gaining my items and bought only a very few of them
i was given let's say 10 iron ore, 10 snake skins, 1 inf helmet, 1 scythe, 1 leather glove and Forge gave me my first hats from jack0.
I don't think you earned the items at all if someone gave them to you for no cost - if you had spent enough hours in the bat caves to have bought them, at least you would have some investment in them. "10 iron ore, 10 snake skins, 1 inf helmet, 1 scythe, 1 leather glove " are half of the good items in the game. I started playing about three months ago and I'm level 68. I don't try to get higher because to me it is more fun to sell items in the market place - I bought some of my first items because I didn't want to spend the hours grinding for them, and I found I enjoyed buying and selling. Since then, I'd say I've become one of the top 5 sellers in the game.
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Cotillion » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:31 pm

ToDo:
- Introduce all unobtainables back into the game
- Remove particle effect for {other players} potions. I'm tired of hearing people whine "no pots!"
- Add more "consumables", ie. potions to upgrade specific stats for 2 min.
- Add a fatigue or stamina bar like MP. Can be recovered with rest or food/potions
- Make a pass through item weights, make them comparable to each other.
- Remove heal spells. Replace them with protection spells and buff spells that are potentially more powerful than the 'pots' available in the store.
- Remove Top-Money List (if it is not already gone)
- Hurry up with TMWSERV, i want the auction house.

Why?
- Remove multi-million dollar cost items.
- Increase individual money sinks (pots, bonus items (temporary)
- Remove the social stigma of 'pot' users
- Make people use healing items, another individual money sink.
- Remove incentive for people to hoard millions, increase reasons to spend their gp to 'play'
- :-D
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jumpy » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:36 pm

what about having the guild creation or if not guild activity task cutting wood, fisher, salesman, wholesale, etc etc?

i know it's been discussed before

go on please with your ideas

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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Habari » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:22 pm

IMHO every single item in game should be trade-able , most of the problem in the mana world is our artifficial economy:
Example: Shop NPC`s have Prices that dont adjust to what players free market would have set.
I would Personally :
1.remove all shop NPC's from game
2.Make all items obtainable only by quests
3.Make Monsters not drop money (or Casino coins) , or any items at all apart from raw resources.
4.Create ways of Productive Economy (such as the dye system or the potion system) , expand it
to a food cooking system , a weapon crafting system , etc ...
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jaxad0127 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:47 pm

Habari wrote:IMHO every single item in game should be trade-able , most of the problem in the mana world is our artifficial economy:
Example: Shop NPC`s have Prices that dont adjust to what players free market would have set.
I would Personally :
1.remove all shop NPC's from game
2.Make all items obtainable only by quests
3.Make Monsters not drop money (or Casino coins) , or any items at all apart from raw resources.
4.Create ways of Productive Economy (such as the dye system or the potion system) , expand it
to a food cooking system , a weapon crafting system , etc ...
We're planning something similar for TMWServ, except we'll still have shops, but they'll sell inferior items compared to crafting, and special items.
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Crush » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:58 pm

Habari wrote:IMHO every single item in game should be trade-able , most of the problem in the mana world is our artifficial economy:
Example: Shop NPC`s have Prices that dont adjust to what players free market would have set.
I would Personally :
1.remove all shop NPC's from game
2.Make all items obtainable only by quests
3.Make Monsters not drop money (or Casino coins) , or any items at all apart from raw resources.
4.Create ways of Productive Economy (such as the dye system or the potion system) , expand it
to a food cooking system , a weapon crafting system , etc ...
Where does the money come from in your system? Or do you want to suggest a pure exchange economy?
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Re: Economic situation in tmw

Post by Jumpy » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:07 am

well we could imagine that a player has to go fight for the items that the person who has the capability to gives services (fishing, etc etc) will need to "produce", "hunt" or "create" the desired item or service needed by the player

we could imagine also a system in which players might be limited by char to develop only 2-3 of all of the available services in tmw that could include special skills in hunting certain mobs and so getting more drops from those mobs or things like this (ej the production of mage of powders)

interesting i think

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