I have been playing for a week.

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
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jdodson
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I have been playing for a week.

Post by jdodson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:57 am

Hey all, first off, nice game. Thank for for releasing it under the GPL. Some people care about Free Software, I being one of them, and like to play games as well.

So I have some commendations and some recommendations. Here they are:

Commendations:

The game is pretty stable. I think its great you are focusing on creating a stable game experience. I only notice a few bugs, but not releated to the overall stability of the game.

The game is relatively bug free. However, I did notice a trading bug. Sometimes I have to logout and back on to trade. I am sure you are well aware of this. Its not a big deal really, but should be fixed.

The game art is good! I loved, and still love the old SNES game Mana. This game makes serious nods to it, not only in the title but also in the graphics. A good game is not made via 3D and the latest GUI game widgets, but the game graphics do add to the overall experience. I commend the art team! Good job!

My suggestions/comments in a feedback nature:

Basically the game is a level grind right now. Whereas that is fine. There is not much draw to come back beyond the traditional kill monster, heal, kill monster, level, etc. Some ideas I had.

I noticed you had two quests in game(as far as I can tell). I imagine these are proof of concept in that you know you can do quests that give you either gold or items. So basically you gather something for a NPC, NPC gives you gold or items. Sweet. Can you do a quest that gives you EXP? WoW, has many quests. Some of them are level specific and help you avoid the "level grind" by allowing you EXP for quests you do.

A simple quest to give EXP and avoid the typical fight/harvest would be something like.

NPC needs you to deliver a letter to someone in a village.
Take letter to village.
Get a return letter.
Take letter back to NPC quest originator
Gain EXP

You can do that with no fighting and it can also add to a continuation of a story between the two characters or a overarching story line set by the game. You could allow the player to read the letter and gain insight to the NPCs. This allows the game world to seem more alive.

Another quest based suggestion is to implement a "Quest Board." Basically any person can post a "I want item X" or "I want X number of Y items" and they offer you the reward, GP or Item. This "Quest Board" would be in all vilagges and be shared. This would allow the game dynamic quest content that is not based on the latest patch or a game master implementing it. It allows the users to create game content.

Another thing to allow the game world feel deeper is to allow muti-tiered chatting with NPCs. I am sure you are familar with this, and will implement it in the future.

I do like the way that you can not purchase all the items in the game. This is cool. It allows the game to develop an economy and certain players are dubbed "stores" or traders. This is great, I commend it. Somtimes, due to low player counts, it is hard to find a person selling a shortsword, but it is fine. When more people play, traders will be easier to find.

Here are some suggestions I bet you get all the time, I bet you will implement these, but because the game is Alpha you have not:

The game world needs to be bigger.

The game world needs more enemy variations.

The game needs magic.

The game needs crafting/proffessions.

The game needs .....

The game is great, I look forward to the next patch!
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Post by Bear » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:09 am

Im sure everyone is happy to hear your commends :D

And as for the quest >.>

that one with the letters and stuff and the exp.

Not a bad idea, however i find that giving exp as a reward is somewhat strange >.>
Iv played Guild wars, a game built on quests to level up. Wasnt exactly the best.

Anyways, i think its strange because exp = experience, you should just magicaly get experience all together, but earn it thru hard work and training (kiling monsters >.>).

But i did make a newbie quest like the letter thing... except it was a hat :o

I just dont feel its necessary to put it in te game right now because its a tad small>.> not too many maps to work with.

again, Thanks for the Comments :D
You also seem to know your quests >.> how about you contact me somehow and discuss some that we might be able to get approval from elven :o
And i too look forward to the next release :D
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Post by maci » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:25 am

welcome to the forums :)
first of all .. YAY finally someone who cares about free software and freedom not about open source and technical convinience :)

thanks for all the nice comments :)
he game world needs to be bigger.

The game world needs more enemy variations.

The game needs magic.

The game needs crafting/proffessions.

The game needs .....
well all these is already planned and were working on it :) most of the other stuff ou mentoined as well

mabe you could hang out in our irc channel and talk to the devs abut some other ideas ou have so we can discuss about them and decide to implement or not

greets
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:32 am

I admit you made me think about this exp quests, but I don't agree on the fact that you gain xp/level only by taking a walk of 5 minutes to bring a letter to someone. I guess when we will have more maps, we could make a canyon with enemy archers, or a map filled with aggressive monsters. This way makes more sense to me, since you risk something to get your xp, you earn them they're not simply given to you as a present.

About the quest board, I think it's a cool idea, I don't know if it's possible with the current server (Bear8 is it possible?). But I agree it is better to wait to have more maps and towns before adding tons of scripts.

Multi-tiered npcs? You mean NPCs who talk to each other, or npcs whose lives are tied together? Both of them will be implemented anyway, soon or later.
Here are some suggestions I bet you get all the time, I bet you will implement these, but because the game is Alpha you have not
You got the answer

The next release is scheduled on 4th of September, but will probably be delayed by one day since Bjorn is abroad. Let me only say that it will come with at least 1 new map and new scripts and small surprises. So check it out.
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Post by Bear » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:37 pm

About the quest board, I think it's a cool idea, I don't know if it's possible with the current server (Bear8 is it possible?).
Yes :D

And there is an existing quest/tagboard on the e-athena forums.
However, since we do not have the input function, it wont work >.>
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Post by jdodson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:40 pm

ElvenProgrammer wrote:I admit you made me think about this exp quests, but I don't agree on the fact that you gain xp/level only by taking a walk of 5 minutes to bring a letter to someone. I guess when we will have more maps, we could make a canyon with enemy archers, or a map filled with aggressive monsters. This way makes more sense to me, since you risk something to get your xp, you earn them they're not simply given to you as a present.
I see what you are saying. You don't want to hand out EXP for nothing. I agree. However, sometimes in a world you can do things that dont require fighting to gain experience. Maybe these will be quests for new people to get the familiar with the world. A quest to take a letter to another town would help new people #1) find the town, #2) learn to travel and #3) ask people for help if they need it, in turn possibly requiring them to interact with other people. There could be some bad guys along the way, perhaps not. I was only using the letter back and forth idea as simply a quest for EXP. I don't think all quests should require fighting, perhaps one quest could have you go to the "edge of the world" and back. Thats quite a bit of traveling, and you would most likely fight along the way, however its not a havest/kill quest, its a "traveling quest." RPGs should be about immersion, immerse the player in a world they can take part in. I also think it would be cool to have quests based on player class that take you to the "mecca" of certain classes. For instance you are a cleric(healer/whatever) your "mecca" or your the city/stronghold/fort/whatever for clerics is pretty far. You could get EXP for talking to your leader, etc. Immersion, its good.
ElvenProgrammer wrote:About the quest board, I think it's a cool idea, I don't know if it's possible with the current server (Bear8 is it possible?). But I agree it is better to wait to have more maps and towns before adding tons of scripts.
I think users abilites to create dynamic content for the world is good. I am thinking of other ways beyond the typical "we can build a house" dynamic. Houses are good, but I think there might be more things you can add to make it more player dynamic. I will let you know any other ideas I come up with.
ElvenProgrammer wrote:Multi-tiered npcs? You mean NPCs who talk to each other, or npcs whose lives are tied together? Both of them will be implemented anyway, soon or later.
No. I used the wrong word. I mean multi level chat with NPCs. So you are presented with options to talk and that takes you into different chat strings of dialogue. Think NWN, Diablo 2, etc. Some NPCs do it now, its fairly basic though. Adding NPCs you can talk to increases the depth of the world.


Something else I failed to mention. Add NPCs to the game that are interesting. Give them interesting names, make them say things that are interesting. Sofar the characters(the Art is good) are pretty static. I could help you with the writing and I could dream up dialogue that allows the characters to seem connected to each other. I could also write quests that intertwine a village and its dynamics. IE quests that involve other NPCs that involve the village, or the community or other villages and communites. I had an idea for a hut of some old woman, she has a hunchback(or some kind of strange character, maybe a half orc or something) working in the back doing gardening. The bantering between these two characters could be funny and lend itself to some interesting quests. A few well thought up NPCs can really add to a game.

Anyways, thats all for now. Keep on rocking the free software!
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Post by jdodson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:52 pm

I have been thinking about it a bit and I don't think it should be a quest board. I should really be something like a quest center or quest guild or quest hut. You could even originally make it a Quest Cave in in city and then as the sprites come in, upgrade it to a quest hut or guild. You could model a story around it and the quest guild/hut/center owner could mention that they are just starting the center and are planning to upgrade as more business comes in. Then later when the sprites arrive you can have a grand opening for a month or so, then bring it back to normal buisness with the new sprites(as they are made available).

I was thinking quest cave because you have the sprites for that already. The world needs more areas to go in and out of, it makes it seem more dynamic.

btw something seems amiss with you php forums, i get database errors occasionally.
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Post by ktm » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:35 pm

a cave in the city? nah... besides, the inn tileset seems to be coming along nicely, and should be done until some kind of "central quest hub" is scripted. and an inn would be the perfect place for something like that (even better than some kind of "job agency" imho).
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Post by jdodson » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:42 pm

ktm wrote:a cave in the city? nah... besides, the inn tileset seems to be coming along nicely, and should be done until some kind of "central quest hub" is scripted. and an inn would be the perfect place for something like that (even better than some kind of "job agency" imho).
I completley agree. I scoured all over your site, it seems like the INN will be in the next patch, however I did not know for sure. I was thinking as I was driving that it would be a good idea to put it in the INN as well, not sure if that was going to be a reality soon or not. So I agree with you, totally.

Though a central quest hub is good. If you put a person behind it, I dunno, to me it seems more...... Dynamic. But its just a personal thing, either way, its fine.
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Post by Bear » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:26 pm

Ok, i agree that there should be more interactive NPCs.... for one thing, for the quest npcs, i already added a multiple chat function...

but your ideas of all those other npcs.... i say they are realy well thought of, but we might have touble adding them because of limited space >.>
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:26 pm

Yup the inn will be on the next release, so you just have to wait 4 more days. If you have any idea on how to improve current npcs feel free to contact me or bear and we'll see what could be done.
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Post by Modanung » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:57 am

About the exp-quests... I think we should implement those as a boss fights.
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Post by nym » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:05 am

EXP should be gained from doing many tasks in the game world. Anyone played Fallout 2? In Fallout you gain experience not only by killing things, but from using your skills and completing quests (which may be non-violent). An example of this is when you use your lockpicking skill to pick the lock on the door, which if successfully done will give you a small amount of experience.

I for one dont want TMW to be just another hack'n'slash, as we have plenty of that around already. TMW should be more freeform, allowing the player to pick how they want to build their character, either by fighting, or by some other means. This could also be integrated into a skill system, which by using skills you gain experience in that skill area. Then players could have different "level" skills, the higher level, the more effective it is. It allows players to not just focus on "killing everything" (which not after long becomes boring).

We must allow the user to enjoy themselves by playing the game. Sure killing high level bosses can be fun, but after a while it can get monotonous.
YOU ARE READING THIS!
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Post by Bear » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:53 am

Well, nym, i believe that you get different types of EXP dont you..?

Like... Running, range fighting >.> so on. the old clients alt+ N
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:51 pm

nym wrote:YOU ARE READING THIS!
Yeah I agree with your post nym.
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