Redesigning the mana World

[enchilado]

I wouldn't mind details on animals, either, but when I mentioned the imports and exports, this was more to do with gameplay than with realism. As I mentioned, I think, if you can buy everything you need in one shop, where's the point in having a huge world?

I have to write about 700 words of Geography assignment before tomorrow, so I can't do much this evening, but at the moment I'm detailing the world map. I've copied the Argaes section, enlarged it to 1,000 x 1,000 pixels, made a new layer, drawn the border again with more detail, and at the moment I'm doing topography. All concept, of course.

But as for tilesets; I can do those myself, so any fancy terrains I think up, I can make them. If I'm going to help you with this - if we're going to do this together (whichever you prefer) - we should get together on IRC sometime and discuss points, and I can show you my maps.

Also, the post script about the Tritan race: as I have mentioned I am no fan of the Elemental races, not at all. No offence to whoever thought it up, but I detest it. I don't mean I want traditional fantasy races like Elves and Dwarves and so on, but just the muddled up elements seems a little... meh to me. I'd rather something more along the lines of,

......................................................................

The humans showed promise in the use of tools; simple sticks at first, but within a thousand years they shaped blocks of stone, and not long after were sailing across the seas in canoes. One of the first places they settled was the Northern continent of Kaizei, but soon there were humans in Argaes and the Southern continents.

Humans also wondered, which most animals cannot (or at least do not) do. For example, a wolf might see a bright light in the back of a cave, and be afraid of it. A human would see the bright light, and would be afraid, but would also wonder what it was.

In fact, it was a vast crystal, emitting an eerie light that shone out upon the fresh, and falling, snow. The man who had seen it believed at first it was a hallucination caused by the mauve leaves he had been chewing, but as he crept closer he saw it was too real to be fake. And when he reached out and touched it he felt a burning in his fingers, and a rush of energy rushed through him; he was almost thrown off it, but he managed to stay where he was.

He turned to the caveman who was with him. "It feels like lightning!" he said - or, as it was in the old tongue, "Ik tumbra ingrav!"

With a sparkling flash of black light, he felt another rush of power. He staggered over toward a tree, holding his hands out in front of him, and with a roaring crash a bolt of lightning descended from the snow, and struck the tree, setting it aflame."

......................................................................

Eh, that was crap, but I wrote it as I went along, with no end in mind. And it wasn't really a replacement for the Races, anyway. I just want different races of human - skinny jungle people, maybe, but not made of plants.

[Crush]

Thinking about economical factors is a great way to start writing political relations in my opinion. When you think about what different factions have, what they need and how far they would be willing to go to get it, plausible conflicts and alliances just write themself.

In the real world history most wars were not fought because of conflicting ideologies but because of conflicting interests.

[enchilado]

We need to think about:

1) Quality of gameplay
2) Plausibility
3) Ease of adding new material
4) Quest material


Also, http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6530/argaes1.png .

[Katze]

Doesn't this topic belong to "Suggestions/Feedback" or something? Just wondering...

[Jaxad0127]

I wouldn't mind details on animals, either, but when I mentioned the imports and exports, this was more to do with gameplay than with realism. As I mentioned, I think, if you can buy everything you need in one shop, where's the point in having a huge world?

I have to write about 700 words of Geography assignment before tomorrow, so I can't do much this evening, but at the moment I'm detailing the world map. I've copied the Argaes section, enlarged it to 1,000 x 1,000 pixels, made a new layer, drawn the border again with more detail, and at the moment I'm doing topography. All concept, of course.

But as for tilesets; I can do those myself, so any fancy terrains I think up, I can make them. If I'm going to help you with this - if we're going to do this together (whichever you prefer) - we should get together on IRC sometime and discuss points, and I can show you my maps.

Also, the post script about the Tritan race: as I have mentioned I am no fan of the Elemental races, not at all. No offence to whoever thought it up, but I detest it. I don't mean I want traditional fantasy races like Elves and Dwarves and so on, but just the muddled up elements seems a little... meh to me. I'd rather something more along the lines of,

......................................................................

The humans showed promise in the use of tools; simple sticks at first, but within a thousand years they shaped blocks of stone, and not long after were sailing across the seas in canoes. One of the first places they settled was the Northern continent of Kaizei, but soon there were humans in Argaes and the Southern continents.

Humans also wondered, which most animals cannot (or at least do not) do. For example, a wolf might see a bright light in the back of a cave, and be afraid of it. A human would see the bright light, and would be afraid, but would also wonder what it was.

In fact, it was a vast crystal, emitting an eerie light that shone out upon the fresh, and falling, snow. The man who had seen it believed at first it was a hallucination caused by the mauve leaves he had been chewing, but as he crept closer he saw it was too real to be fake. And when he reached out and touched it he felt a burning in his fingers, and a rush of energy rushed through him; he was almost thrown off it, but he managed to stay where he was.

He turned to the caveman who was with him. "It feels like lightning!" he said - or, as it was in the old tongue, "Ik tumbra ingrav!"

With a sparkling flash of black light, he felt another rush of power. He staggered over toward a tree, holding his hands out in front of him, and with a roaring crash a bolt of lightning descended from the snow, and struck the tree, setting it aflame."

......................................................................

Eh, that was crap, but I wrote it as I went along, with no end in mind. And it wasn't really a replacement for the Races, anyway. I just want different races of human - skinny jungle people, maybe, but not made of plants.

The 8 elemental races aren't going to be used any more. Some of them may have been recycled, but not as elemental races.

[Rotonen]

Designing a world is so much fun it is really easy to get captivated by the process and be carried away far far from where the process is now.

I'm trying to counter this by regulating where the effort within the CR projects is allowed to flow. At the moment we're doing the tutorial island and keeping our feet firmly on the ground.

If you want to see what exactly is going to come and get implemented in future CRs, get this one done.

[enchilado]

The 8 elemental races aren't going to be used any more. Some of them may have been recycled, but not as elemental races.

That cheers me up somewhat. I was reading some of John P's stuff, and it mentioned Tritans, so I figured you were still going with that.

Rotonen: I'm mapping Argaes at the moment (almost the same as the current one), and I don't know where to put Tutorial Island. I know that on the existing map it's in the little basin in the middle of the island, but a depression like that would most likely be caused by an old volcanic crater - how would you get a mountain in the middle of a crater? Unless the force of the volcano lowered... and with less lava... less volcano was formed... h'm.

Now I have about 200 words of Geography assignment to write in the next 1/2 hour. Not to finish it, but I have to take it to school today and I want to prove to the teacher that I didn't just start last night. Which I did.


So Jax*, if they'll be recycled, what as? If you've decided.

[Jaxad0127]

The 8 elemental races aren't going to be used any more. Some of them may have been recycled, but not as elemental races.

That cheers me up somewhat. I was reading some of John P's stuff, and it mentioned Tritans, so I figured you were still going with that.

...

So Jax*, if they'll be recycled, what as? If you've decided.

You answered your question before you asked it. The basic ideas of some of those 10 races will be used in a new setting, free of the elemental symmetry.

Rotonen: I'm mapping Argaes at the moment (almost the same as the current one), and I don't know where to put Tutorial Island. I know that on the existing map it's in the little basin in the middle of the island, but a depression like that would most likely be caused by an old volcanic crater - how would you get a mountain in the middle of a crater? Unless the force of the volcano lowered... and with less lava... less volcano was formed... h'm.

Tutorial island isn't really on the world map, and shouldn't be, IMO.

[Bertram]

On the contrary, the "Tutorial" Island being on the world map doesn't bother, since, if I remember correctly, it's been decided to let people to come back to it once for awhile.

This said. I won't complain about the actual decision.

[Jaxad0127]

Lets put it elsewhere, atleast. No need complicating the first continent any more than it already is.

[John P]

Designing a world is so much fun it is really easy to get captivated by the process and be carried away far far from where the process is now.

Now THERE is my thought process. It's a big big world. My hypocrisy of course is that I started on Tonori before the CR projects existed and fleshed it out a bit. Now it is set aside for the ages. I cringe a little when I move Dabe's stuff aside, thinking about how impermanent future work is, although I think it is very important for it to remain flexible to change. SO....

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =30&t=9305 is discussion of tutorial island storyline. Start about 12 posts down, as all of the rest has been discarded.

I gleaned quite a bit from Dabe (as homage), such as the Tritans. Most of what I took has little to do with the original incarnations. You'll notice I relegated elements to the expression of magic, and only as a result of man's own mental obsession with the elements (ie. a water-looking attack doesn't splash you, it just looks like water). Kind of a jab at the unoriginal concept as a whole .

Obviously NPCs and regions will be specialized. This isn't eAthena. We are also dropping the whole manastone thing. Manaworld beings have a natural attachment to mana, thus their ability to manipulate mana will be a matter of training and education (more direct association to intelligence/wisdom) than having the ability magically unlocked by touching a glowing rock.

So far, no ideological wars . Port City conflict is the "colonial" issue of a fully blossomed city being ruled by afar. Tutorial Island conflict is the "University-based-city" issue. But again, each case will no doubt be examined as they become part of a CR project. The ideological conflict I had in mind did not wage any regions into fighting, but was also to be a mockery of ideological conflict in general.

As far as just how REAL the game needs to be (for example, skinny people in the jungle and black people in the savanna, and a geologically unlikely island), I like to throw the fantasy card around a bit, too. As of yet, mana people don't even EAT, they might not have melatonin, the world may not have tectonic plates. While everything should have an explanation, it doesn't have to be a perfect-to-OUR-reality one.

I, too, would appreciate if tutorial island were not the circle in the middle of Argaes, but not a big factor either way for me.

I suppose instead of "I'd love help", I could have said the project can use help. I'm not big on the leadership game. Either way, I currently do not have an option to plan for time on IRC. I might find some time this weekend, but who knows. I have a to-do list that reaches the floor.

In summary, my advice for the ivy project is not to take on too much. Focus on one area at a time. You want to take on gameplay, backstory, geography design, and quests all at once, but there is a team here for a reason. Contribute ideas, but don't get too attached to any of them.

Sorry for another long post. I can't seem to help it...

[enchilado]

Big posts are fine! The bigger, the better.

I envision the early people evolving far to the East, in a land we will never see. They sailed from there to Kaizei in the North, and then, in search of better climate, South to Argaes and the big continent down there. What think you?

[John P]

Big posts are fine! The bigger, the better.

I envision the early people evolving far to the East, in a land we will never see. They sailed from there to Kaizei in the North, and then, in search of better climate, South to Argaes and the big continent down there. What think you?

Does this fall somewhere into the backstory timeline, or eliminate it? Are "early people" the one and only humanoid species? If not, then why are they the focus of the world? Also, by evolving, do you mean like from apes into cavemen? It sounds okay, but I really don't know what it is...

I am humoring your project more so than the other contributors because, pretty much, I too walked in one day and said, "I am rewriting the whole history of the mana world." Only I didn't say it, I created an outline of my story, wrote some concept ideas for the world and presented it. So I've been in your position. Your tactic is your downfall.

"TMW's backstory content sucks, pretty much because I personally don't like the concepts. I am going to redo everything better. Are you with me?"

You sound like you know what you're talking about and can contribute some great things, but all you've got is a new business model. Don't ask us if your project is worth doing; how are we supposed to know? It might be amazing and perfect, and it might suck, we can't guess. It's like Stava's Tauren: it is pretty, but what the hell are we supposed to do with it?

I hope you're understanding what I mean and don't think I'm trying to stop you from working. On that note, from what little you've given, the only critique I can offer is that I personally feel your attachment to realism misses the point that a great story is only told because of its unique deviation from the norm.

[enchilado]

No, no! Say whatever you feel. I'd rather you said "You suck and everything you do is FAIL" than think that and say I'm doing great


No, I don't plan to rewrite the entire Mana World. I did originally, because the last time I was on the wiki there was just some dribble and proposals and nothing really there. Now, of course, you've done a lot of work, so I will just help you, filling in details and working on things.

As for the realism thing, I'm fine with unrealism provided it's still aesthetic, or makes for good gameplay. The round island I mentioned before was not only unlikely, but looked bad on the world map. Didn't fit.

I love working on worlds, which is a major reason why I want to do this. And really, anything you say I'll listen to, unless you start talking absolute Chocolate Cupcake. But I don't think you will

At the moment, though, I have to shorten my English monologue by three hundred words, and memorise it by Thursday, as well as write several hundred words of Geography assignment by Monday...

And, as I think I mentioned, I'd like to work on tilesets after this

[bcs86]

yack yack yack