Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
Post Reply
User avatar
Len
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:17 am
Location: Lurking in the shadows

Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Len » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:19 am

Image
They did some nice recycling of many of their tiles (something we can learn from)
They even did it with some of the buildings (the lazy bastards!)
Image
Pixel Battalion
User avatar
Rotonen
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:48 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Rotonen » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:24 am

They could get away with it easier: you don't see the same landscapes again as often as you see in an MMO.

This however does not mean we could not get away with recycling if we do it smart.
This message used to be meaningful.
User avatar
Dave
Novice
Novice
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Dave » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:27 am

Word. Also, as I'm pretty sure has been mentioned before.. another form of tile recycling can take place when multiple tilesets are used to design a single zone.
Oh hey, regarding the desert tileset's coastal animation.. how does that animation look in SD3? (from the screenshot on the right) Anything we can learn from?
User avatar
Len
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:17 am
Location: Lurking in the shadows

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Len » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:37 am

Dave wrote:
Oh hey, regarding the desert tileset's coastal animation.. how does that animation look in SD3? (from the screenshot on the right) Anything we can learn from?
It is beyond amazing, but I'm not sure if we can pull it off on the large scale :!:
Image
Pixel Battalion
User avatar
Rotonen
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:48 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Rotonen » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:49 am

I think he was after an animated example for you to show us...
This message used to be meaningful.
User avatar
Dave
Novice
Novice
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Dave » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:07 am

No, I was actually just looking for his visual recollection. I haven't played much of that particular title, so I don't really recall and haven't really seen a lot of the graphics. ..but now that Rotonen mentions it, if you get a chance, gif together some screenshot clippings of that water animation for us to stare at.

About the reused sand tiles in the screenshots; I wondered whether or not they recolored those tiles from a single graphic and a palette change, or just had three different versions.. then of course that made me wonder, if we're dynamically coloring objects and all of that, it will work for tiles, too.. correct?
User avatar
Dimond
Novice
Novice
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:18 pm

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Dimond » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:57 am

This is probably completely off topic, but Dave your image on the side there is creepy...
:?
User avatar
Dave
Novice
Novice
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Dave » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:25 am

8) My smiling Cronus avatar felt old when I finally got back online.
User avatar
Othello
Novice
Novice
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:15 pm
Location: Amersfoort, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Othello » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:03 am

I think many transitions can be reused. It would benift the speed of the game development, and it would hardly be noticed by the player (if the actual tilesets have enough variation). We could for example created 3 types of cliff-tiles: Round, haxagonical/triangular and square (like the new forest tileset). Then you could color it for each type of environment different. Would not be lots of work, and I think it would not harm the game (maybe even be an improvement, because you get more consistent). Same counts for shore-lines.
"I'm a Mog, half man, half dog... I'm my own best friend!" - Barf

My blog
User avatar
Crush
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 8046
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Crush » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:08 pm

The main reason for squaresoft reusing tiles like that was size limitation of the ROM modules. So they used palette swapping a lot. But it is really surprising how well it works.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
User avatar
Jetryl
Novice
Novice
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:55 pm

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Jetryl » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:39 am

Crush wrote:The main reason for squaresoft reusing tiles like that was size limitation of the ROM modules. So they used palette swapping a lot. But it is really surprising how well it works.
And the fact that it actually takes a lot of time to produce tiles like that. There's no point wasting weeks to churn out a new tileset when you can reuse an existing one and basically get the same effect. The trick with that is - sure, it's reused, and sure, people will notice that. But it looks good, and if it does look good, it doesn't feel cheap.

It's like having to eat the same meal every day for a week, but it being something really, really good. If it's really good, you don't get tired of it.
Image
User avatar
Black Don
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:30 pm

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Black Don » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:33 am

Plus i do find that snow and sand do tend to drift in very similar patterns.
"Too much of a good thing is an awesome thing, but too much of an awesome thing is, um, really really dumb. And bad." Strong Bad
User avatar
leeor_net
Novice
Novice
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by leeor_net » Sat May 24, 2008 5:10 pm

That really depends on the type of snow and it's shape... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow#Types_of_snow
- Leeor

"Oh, no thanks. I ate a boulder on the way in." - Shrek
User avatar
Black Don
Warrior
Warrior
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:30 pm

Re: Squaresoft is lazy!!!

Post by Black Don » Tue May 27, 2008 7:27 pm

leeor_net wrote:That really depends on the type of snow and it's shape... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow#Types_of_snow
Same goes for sand ie whether it is wet, dry, fineness of the grain. :P

I was speaking in general before.
"Too much of a good thing is an awesome thing, but too much of an awesome thing is, um, really really dumb. And bad." Strong Bad
Post Reply